Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby TheHandOfDog on Thu May 23, 2019 11:49 am

I don't agree with Neville getting that job but he has played football and been a coach at a considerably higher level in terms of quality of football.
Also when I use the term mens game, I am using it only as a way of putting the point across that the mens game, at a pro level is leagues and leagues ahead in terms of quality.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby fmgod on Thu May 23, 2019 11:53 am

I think modern managers are pretty much all ex pros though

Zidane - obviously
Pep - Obviously
Allegri - Played Serie A/B I think
Poch - Played high level
Klopp - Played Bundesliga 2
Siemone - Class
Conte - Class
Emery - Played La Liga adelante
Valverde - La Liga forward
Ancelotti - Played for all the top sides in Italy

I'd say in most cases now clubs have managers that at least played to the second division for that country which let's be honest means they are quality footballers. There is the odd one here and there but most managers played to what would be an unreal standard for the average joe or compared to the standard of womans football
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Doc H Ball on Thu May 23, 2019 11:56 am

Looking wider there's no logical 'footballing' reason why the best managers these islands have ever seen came from small pit villages outside of Glasgow, but they did.

It has more to do with respect, leadership and hard work than anything else.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby fmgod on Thu May 23, 2019 12:01 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:Looking wider there's no logical 'footballing' reason why the best managers these islands have ever seen came from small pit villages outside of Glasgow, but they did.

It has more to do with respect, leadership and hard work than anything else.


There probably actually is if you delved into it or reasons which make it more likely people from that area extrude certain qualities.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Doc H Ball on Thu May 23, 2019 12:21 pm

fmgod wrote:
There probably actually is if you delved into it or reasons which make it more likely people from that area extrude certain qualities.


Oh I’m sure there are. Must be. A bit like that excellent Michael Johnson documentary about 100m runners and slave ancestry.

The values of thrift, loyalty, identity, mateship as encapsulated most recently by Ferguson. But there appears to be no technical footballing reason. No extra ball skills set.

I guess the question is can women enter that mateship world on equal terms? I don’t see it so much as a need to have played at a high level - I think that forms respect mostly.

Going wider further I wish a prominent woman had been around representing our interests as a fan base when we needed that. Might not have ended up in the cockfight it did.

I don’t personally watch womens’ football but not averse to female coaches at all.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby stu1 on Thu May 23, 2019 12:33 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Neville and Zola, two good examples of what happens when you appoint for reasons other than ability.


Both Neville and Zola spent over 15 years living and breathing elite level football. Coaching a team equivalent to non league at best doesn’t eclipse their experience, far from it imo.

Neville clearly knows his onions, his biggest mistake was probably taking a job abroad with a club which is a bit of a basket case. Zola, in hindsight also wasn’t that bad when you consider what happened with Avarm afterwards.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Turns to Stone on Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm

There is absolutely no biological or physical reason that a woman would not be as successful a football manager as a man.

They will always be less experienced, because how can you gain experience if you can't get a job. And it would need someone to take a risk.

The question will always come down to Job Description and Person Specification. Any woman can have all the same badges as a man, just as much ability and tactical understanding as a man and just as much leadership, motivational and empathetic qualities as a man. What she may not have is silverware, fame and genuine big game experience. Because at the current time that is not possible to gain in women's football.

I don't think a woman will get a Prem job for many, many years. And I understand some of the reasons behind this. But to think that women are any less capable in terms of learning, leadership, motivational ability just seems nonsensical to me.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby stu1 on Thu May 23, 2019 2:02 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:But to think that women are any less capable in terms of learning, leadership, motivational ability just seems nonsensical to me.


You keep getting on your high horse implying that’s what people are saying, but I don’t see posts reflecting those views. Possibly one recent post but you’ve been drumming this point since the opening page.

If a man had the Chelsea woman teams managerial experience, he’d have absolutely no chance of getting the men’s job, so why should a women?

It’s quite simple, they shouldn’t and they won’t unless the women’s game improves astronomically in quality.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Turns to Stone on Thu May 23, 2019 2:11 pm

On the first page alone there is a post about the menopause, a post about women wanting equality but then getting the hump about it and a post comparing men's and women's football to Tesco's and a corner shop.

You're right, there are loads of really good posts on the topic, and maybe I am a bit of an arse about certain subjects from time to time. But then I respond to what I see.

There are some fair reasons why women won't get jobs in the Premier League for many years to come. But there are also some ridiculous, sexist reasons. And sadly some of them have been mentioned in this thread.

Apologies if I've focused too much on those.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby warp on Thu May 23, 2019 2:14 pm

stu1 wrote:If a man had the Chelsea woman teams managerial experience, he’d have absolutely no chance of getting the men’s job, so why should a women?


no one is saying that either, though.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Jon on Thu May 23, 2019 3:38 pm

As others have said there's some very strange logic when clubs appoint managers.

The great player must equal great manager 'logic' continues to be applied with mostly disastrous consequences.

The tried and tested formula seems to be appointing managers from Glasgow!!

Clubs go foreign, old, young, experience or none (Lampard). Maybe one club will take a chance on a woman. I don't think it would be such a gamble at all.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Up the Junction on Thu May 23, 2019 4:08 pm

fmgod wrote:I'd say in most cases now clubs have managers that at least played to the second division for that country which let's be honest means they are quality footballers.

But it doesn't mean they'll become successful managers of people, which is an entirely different skill set.

And not one linked to testosterone levels, either.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby White Goodman on Thu May 23, 2019 4:20 pm

Georgee Paris wrote:Paula Ratcliffe used to train and keep up with the top Kenyan runners. Formula 1 has had a few female drivers on the verge of top competition.


Did she **** :)

If she did then they were sandbagging, even her ridiculous world record is 'only' 2.15

There are no top male Kenyan runners , now or then that she kept up with unless they were intentionally letting her do so.

That said I'm not sure that is important to the discussion
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Jon on Thu May 23, 2019 4:32 pm

What's crystal is that male managers can't or won't stop players behaving like tarts, rolling around, whinging, feigning injury etc etc.

Maybe it will take a female coach to tell them how embarrassing they look. Men like to impress women. If she gave them a few home truths about what playing and behaving like a man looks like, who knows! :thup:
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Westbourne Bill on Thu May 23, 2019 5:24 pm

PL clubs dont consider appointing the very best managers from the EFL, let alone a woman. The Cowley brothers, Kenny Jackett and Chris Wilder(before his eventual promotion with Sheffield Utd) could all be considered as worthy of a chance but been passed over presumably because they didn't play at the very top level or hadn't managed at a top level abroad. Rightly or wrongly, it would need a pretty special woman to command respect from a young multi millionaire PL footballer in my opinion.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Rocketron on Thu May 23, 2019 5:36 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:On the first page alone there is a post about the menopause, a post about women wanting equality but then getting the hump about it and a post comparing men's and women's football to Tesco's and a corner shop.

You're right, there are loads of really good posts on the topic, and maybe I am a bit of an arse about certain subjects from time to time. But then I respond to what I see.

There are some fair reasons why women won't get jobs in the Premier League for many years to come. But there are also some ridiculous, sexist reasons. And sadly some of them have been mentioned in this thread.

Apologies if I've focused too much on those.

Don't apologise TTS. You're the only one who has the right idea.
Successful managers are not defined by sex or football prowess.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby Georgee Paris on Thu May 23, 2019 6:27 pm

I’m not sure they have what it takes after all they haven’t even managed to become the best chefs yet.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby White Goodman on Thu May 23, 2019 7:41 pm

My favourite post on this thread so far (and I don't think it's entirely relevant to the discussion) was the cuckolded soy boy (not sure who it was but no offence mate) who suggested massively generously the top women's teams are about League Two level :-)

Any League Two team would beat the England Women's Team about 20-0.
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby e17 on Thu May 23, 2019 8:09 pm

White Goodman wrote:My favourite post on this thread so far (and I don't think it's entirely relevant to the discussion) was the cuckolded soy boy (not sure who it was but no offence mate) who suggested massively generously the top women's teams are about League Two level :-)

Any League Two team would beat the England Women's Team about 20-0.



:lol:

Oh WG
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Postby e17 on Thu May 23, 2019 8:10 pm

Personally I’d love it if Chelsea gave this lass the job
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