Curbs to sue (poll added)

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Is Alan Curbishley right to sue WHUFC for constructive dismissal?

Yes
155
56%
No
103
37%
Unsure
19
7%
 
Total votes: 277

QuintonNimoy
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by QuintonNimoy »

carnage wrote:Funny how he never thought about suing when players were being brought IN without his say so.

GOod riddance.
Which players were brought in without his say so?
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westhamerica
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by westhamerica »

QuintonNimoy wrote: Which players were brought in without his say so?
Didn't egghead bring in Ljungberg?
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by QuintonNimoy »

westhamerica wrote: Didn't egghead bring in Ljungberg?
Quite possibly, but without his consent at all?
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by carnage »

QuintonNimoy wrote: Quite possibly, but without his consent at all?
Maybe. But if BG says to Curbs "we have to sell someone" and Curbs doesnt want to, what do you do as the owner?
Managers are not interested in the financial side of the Club, look at Redknapp and Impey for example. Redknapp didnt throw his toys out of the pram like Curbs.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by YGNB »

carnage wrote:Funny how he never thought about suing when players were being brought IN without his say so.

GOod riddance.
Explain??

Curbs always said we need stability which some people thought of as an admission of mid table mediocrity every season. I wonder how many people would take 10th place this season.

People criticised his football but without most of his first team, he didn't have a choice. If he tried to attack attack attack with a team incapable of finishing moves we would be in this position we are now, 4 losses in a row.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by QuintonNimoy »

carnage wrote: Maybe. But if BG says to Curbs "we have to sell someone" and Curbs doesnt want to, what do you do as the owner?
Managers are not interested in the financial side of the Club, look at Redknapp and Impey for example. Redknapp didnt throw his toys out of the pram like Curbs.
The way Curbs tells it though is that they all agreed that holding onto George and leaving the squad as it was would be OK. From the owner's point of view if you feel things have changed and you have no choice but to sell, then I guess you get rid and brace yourself for the fallout which may or may not include legal action for the contract you just breached.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by carnage »

YGNB wrote: Explain??

Curbs always said we need stability which some people thought of as an admission of mid table mediocrity every season. I wonder how many people would take 10th place this season.

People criticised his football but without most of his first team, he didn't have a choice. If he tried to attack attack attack with a team incapable of finishing moves we would be in this position we are now, 4 losses in a row.
We lost 5 out of 7 under Curbs last season, with largely a fully fit squad. Seem to have been erased from the record books of the pro Curbs brigade on here. And were playing dire boring football to boot when totally safe from going down.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by Fionn »

carnage wrote: We lost 5 out of 7 under Curbs last season, with largely a fully fit squad. Seem to have been erased from the record books of the pro Curbs brigade on here. And were playing dire boring football to boot when totally safe from going down.
Difference is that Curbs had already more than proved himself.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by beckton »

carnage wrote:
We lost 5 out of 7 under Curbs last season, with largely a fully fit squad. Seem to have been erased from the record books of the pro Curbs brigade on here. And were playing dire boring football to boot when totally safe from going down.

When was that then?

I haven't seen West Ham with a largely fit squad in over two years!

.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by bubbles1966 »

The fundamental point here is that the club have allegedly contractually agreed Curbishley's "Lord Almighty" status over transfers.

If that's true, and he sues them, they only have themselves to blame. With hindsight the construct of his contract appears to have been a dumb, short-sighted and possibly desperate thing to do (how many times have we been here - tearing up Tevez's, 67k for Freddie etc).

Fact is, if you agree sign a contract, you have to abide by its terms or face the consequences.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by libero »

I am amazed by the poll. Well over 50% of those who voted are in favour of a former employee (who voluntarily resigned from his well paid position) doing the club they support financial damage. And at a time when the club is obviously in serious financial difficulties. We don't know the details of his contract, but I very much doubt if it specifically stipulates that he should have total and absolute control over all aspects of signings. It seems an unlikely thing to put in a manager's contract

I've always thought Curbs was a decent, honest person. But he resigned. It's as simple as that. Some of you are saying that the club/board put him in an impossible position by taking transfers out of his hands and that's what forced him to resign. I understand the argument, but Curbs is a 50 year old man working in a fairly cut throat business - he was well paid to put up with the lack of democracy in the running of the club. He was, after all, an employee, no more.

In many areas of working life, people all over the world face similar dilemas of trust and responsibilty. They don't resign and then expect to sue the employers. It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It simply makes no sense in the real world.

And I am truly bewildered that so many West Ham supporters are taking Curbs' side against the club. BG, the board and the people who run the club may not be very popular, but the money Curbs' action may end up costing will simply weaken West Ham United and bolster his bank balance. Simple as that.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by Hammer Laffers »

libero wrote:I am amazed by the poll. Well over 50% of those who voted are in favour of a former employee (who voluntarily resigned from his well paid position) doing the club they support financial damage. And at a time when the club is obviously in serious financial difficulties.

I've always thought Curbs was a decent, honest person. But he resigned. It's as simple as that. Some of you are saying that the club/board put him in an impossible position by taking transfers out of his hands and that's what forced him to resign. I understand the argument, but Curbs is a 50 year old man working in a fairly cut throat business - he was well paid to put up with the lack of democracy in the running of the club. He was, after all, an employee, no more.

In many areas of working life, people all over the world face similar dilemas of trust and responsibilty. They don't resign and then expect to sue the employers. It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It simply makes no sense in the real world.

And I am truly bewildered that so many West Ham supporters are taking Curbs' side against the club. BG, the board and the people who run the club may not be very popular, but the money Curbs' action may end up costing will simply weaken West Ham United and bolster his bank balance. Simple as that.
A £1M is going to really weaken us as a team, heck, it may even send us into administration!!

I'm sure, had you been in the same position you would be doing the same for breach of contract. You keep harping on about Curbishley trying to mug the team he has supported as a boy off, but what about the club mugging him off by selling players that he didn't want to sell, bringing in players he didn't want, constantly talking in the backroom about him being replaced.

If that had been me I would be trying to grab all I could off of the people responsible.

Remeber he isn't sueing West Ham, he is sueing BG, who in turn is owned by Iceland, who in turn are owned by the UK, it's the monach he is sueing!! TRAITOR!!!
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by bubbles1966 »

libero wrote: I've always thought Curbs was a decent, honest person. But he resigned. It's as simple as that. Some of you are saying that the club/board put him in an impossible position by taking transfers out of his hands and that's what forced him to resign. I understand the argument, but Curbs is a 50 year old man working in a fairly cut throat business - he was well paid to put up with the lack of democracy in the running of the club. He was, after all, an employee, no more.

In many areas of working life, people all over the world face similar dilemas of trust and responsibilty. They don't resign and then expect to sue the employers. It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It simply makes no sense in the real world.
People sue their employers and take them to employment tribunals every day in the "real world".

The concept of constructive dismissal is a very valid one - where employers break their employees working contracts, bully and harass them and generally make life difficult for them, ultimately forcing them to resign.....its what Trade Unions have fought against, with good reason, for years. FWIW I've tended to be the sacker in my jobs - and even I can see that you should treat people with decency and fairness.

Curbishley may well have been well paid - lets face it if you had 35k people calling you a useless c**t every week, so would you want to be - especially when your judgement and skills could be worth tens of millions to your employer.

None of that alters the general principle - and the money is irreleavnt in that

Employers should treat their employees (from the highest to the lowest paid) fairly. The board should have demonstrated some decency and guts in dealing with the problem of Curbs. If he wasn't playing ball, and they weren't happy with him they should have had the guts and honesty to dismiss him and pay him what he was due.

If they are in a financial mess, it's of their own making. If they left themselves wide open to a financial hit in the event of "incompetent management" they again, only have themselves to blame.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by Pop Robson »

Anyone heard about John Ball taking the club to court too?
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Albie Beck
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by Albie Beck »

bubbles1966 wrote: Employers should treat their employees (from the highest to the lowest paid) fairly. The board should have demonstrated some decency and guts in dealing with the problem of Curbs. If he wasn't playing ball, and they weren't happy with him they should have had the guts and honesty to dismiss him and pay him what he was due.

If they are in a financial mess, it's of their own making. If they left themselves wide open to a financial hit in the event of "incompetent management" they again, only have themselves to blame.
Absolutely spot on, bubbles. And reportedly that pillock CEO/former Legal Officer didn't even know the terms of Curb's contract, and they begged him to come back once they realised he had them over a barrel. Says it all.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by davids cross »

With the boards record in these legal matters you would have a big wedge on Curbs winning that's for sure.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by QuintonNimoy »

libero wrote:I am amazed by the poll. Well over 50% of those who voted are in favour of a former employee (who voluntarily resigned from his well paid position) doing the club they support financial damage. And at a time when the club is obviously in serious financial difficulties. We don't know the details of his contract, but I very much doubt if it specifically stipulates that he should have total and absolute control over all aspects of signings. It seems an unlikely thing to put in a manager's contract
If it's not in there he has no case. I find it pleasing that people aren't willing to throw away their general principles and recognise when the club has behaved badly and deserves what it gets, and perhaps that the people who make up the board and the club they love aren't necessarily the same thing.
libero wrote: I've always thought Curbs was a decent, honest person. But he resigned. It's as simple as that. Some of you are saying that the club/board put him in an impossible position by taking transfers out of his hands and that's what forced him to resign. I understand the argument, but Curbs is a 50 year old man working in a fairly cut throat business - he was well paid to put up with the lack of democracy in the running of the club. He was, after all, an employee, no more.
Non argument - if his contract has been breached and his authority taken away then that's it. It makes no difference what the business is like - enforcing a basic standard of behaviour is what the law of the land is there for.
libero wrote: In many areas of working life, people all over the world face similar dilemas of trust and responsibilty. They don't resign and then expect to sue the employers. It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It simply makes no sense in the real world.
No, it's called the law protecting the individual from being abused by the company or institution they work for. If a company makes a promise contractually it has to keep it. If you have a problem with Curbishley being in a position to do this, then it's the board who appointed him you have to blame. You may have noticed they seem to like to mug people off and say "sue me". So Curbs is suing them.
libero wrote: And I am truly bewildered that so many West Ham supporters are taking Curbs' side against the club. BG, the board and the people who run the club may not be very popular, but the money Curbs' action may end up costing will simply weaken West Ham United and bolster his bank balance. Simple as that.
Because some things are more important than the club bank balance. If you can't see it then perhaps it tells us something about you. Simple as that.
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by AlfieG »

:thup: Very well answered QN.

Give it your best Libero. :wink:
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by libero »

QN

I certainly agree that laws are in existence to protect individuals from abuse from more powerful organizations. That is obviously always the case. Curbs is a very wealthy man but has his rights. However my problem with this situation is that, given the fact that nobody on this forum has actually seen the contract in question, or had it summarised by a lawyer - it is bewildering that so many people choose to support the former employee, not the club. In the abscence of concrete knowledge, I would have expected the club's supporters to support the club until the full facts are revealed.

If we have faith in the legal system then the right decision will eventually come out in the end. What makes people automatically support one of the parties is the surprising element for me.

Money is certainly not the be all and end all of any case and I object to the implication that I see things in those terms. But neither is the club, its owners, board members and so on always in the wrong and the individual always right. The legal system will have the final say and if Curbs is awarded his cash, then I'll hold up my hands and say "fair enough".
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Re: Curbs to sue (poll added)

Post by V-M »

AlfieG wrote:If true, I bet he is doing it with a very heavy heart.

Its not about money, its about principle. :twisted:

The new owners at OUR club are a bunch of snidey backstabbing w***ers who went behind his back and forced him to resign IMVHO.

He is/was more of a Hammer than any of these Icelandics are.

Good luck to him. :thup:
I was going to post my opinion but I think its already been perfectly summed up :thup:
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