Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs [POLL]
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- hightec
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Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs [POLL]
By Ewan Turney
03/02/2011 09:46
The advocate general of the European Court of Justice has voiced support for the use of foreign satellite football systems, saying that the use of decoder cards can not be restricted to one country.
The news is a major coup for foreign satellite suppliers and Hampshire licensee Karen Murphy and could potentially have huge ramifications for the Premier League and Sky.
Not binding
However, the opinion is “not binding on the Court of Justice” and the ECJ judges will now consider their own verdict in “complete independence”. They will hand that decision down later in the year.
A further hearing will then be held in the UK High Court to discuss how to incorporate the ruling.
The opinion has no immediate impact on the legality of foreign satellite systems.
Internal market
Advocate General Julianne Kokott said she took the view that the use of decoder cards could not be restricted to one territory as that would “petition the internal market” and be contrary to the principles of the freedom of the European market.
“The marketing of broadcasting rights on the basis of territorial exclusivity is tantamount to profiting from the elimination of the internal market,” she said.
“Consequently, the specific subject-matter of the rights in the transmission of football matches does not justify a partitioning of the internal market, and thus also does not justify the resulting restriction of the freedom to provide services.”
Copyright
She also dismissed the copyright argument put forward by the Premier League — a key plank in its argument. She said “the freedom to provide services is also in line with the Satellite and Cable Directive and with European competition law. Equally, neither does the Conditional Access Directive constitute a barrier to the use of foreign decoder cards.
I
03/02/2011 09:46
The advocate general of the European Court of Justice has voiced support for the use of foreign satellite football systems, saying that the use of decoder cards can not be restricted to one country.
The news is a major coup for foreign satellite suppliers and Hampshire licensee Karen Murphy and could potentially have huge ramifications for the Premier League and Sky.
Not binding
However, the opinion is “not binding on the Court of Justice” and the ECJ judges will now consider their own verdict in “complete independence”. They will hand that decision down later in the year.
A further hearing will then be held in the UK High Court to discuss how to incorporate the ruling.
The opinion has no immediate impact on the legality of foreign satellite systems.
Internal market
Advocate General Julianne Kokott said she took the view that the use of decoder cards could not be restricted to one territory as that would “petition the internal market” and be contrary to the principles of the freedom of the European market.
“The marketing of broadcasting rights on the basis of territorial exclusivity is tantamount to profiting from the elimination of the internal market,” she said.
“Consequently, the specific subject-matter of the rights in the transmission of football matches does not justify a partitioning of the internal market, and thus also does not justify the resulting restriction of the freedom to provide services.”
Copyright
She also dismissed the copyright argument put forward by the Premier League — a key plank in its argument. She said “the freedom to provide services is also in line with the Satellite and Cable Directive and with European competition law. Equally, neither does the Conditional Access Directive constitute a barrier to the use of foreign decoder cards.
I
- hightec
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
THE FULL JUDGEMENT:
With regard to possible justification for the restriction of the freedom to provide services, the Advocate General examines the protection of industrial and commercial property and, in particular, addresses the question whether live satellite transmissions of football matches involve rights the specific subject-matter of which requires a partitioning of the internal market. In this connection she first states that the specific subject-matter of the rights in live football transmissions lies in their commercial exploitation. In the present cases, the live transmission of Premier League football matches is exploited, in particular, through the charge imposed for the decoder cards. Advocate General Kokott takes the view in this connection that the economic exploitation of the rights in question is not undermined by the use of foreign decoder cards, as the corresponding charges have been paid for those cards. Whilst those charges are not as high as the charges imposed in the United Kingdom, there is, according to the Advocate General, no specific right to charge different prices for a work in each Member State. Rather, it forms part of the logic of the internal market that price differences between different Member States should be offset by trade. The marketing of broadcasting rights on the basis of territorial exclusivity is tantamount to profiting from the elimination of the internal market. Consequently, the specific subject-matter of the rights in the transmission of football matches does not justify a partitioning of the internal market, and thus also does not justify the resulting restriction of the freedom to provide services.
Advocate General Kokott further takes the view that the contractual restriction on using decoder cards in the State of origin only for domestic or private use, but not for commercial use – for which a higher subscription charge is payable – also cannot justify a territorial restriction of the freedom to provide services. The Member State concerned may, however, in principle make provision for rights which allow authors to object to the communication of their works in pubs.
So far as concerns the question whether the showing of live transmissions of football matches in pubs infringes the exclusive right of communication to the public of protected works within the terms of the Copyright in the Information Society Directive1, the Advocate General explains that, as EU law stands at present, there are no comprehensive rights which protect the communication of a broadcast to the public where no entrance fee is charged.
Advocate General Kokott further expresses the view that the application of the principle of the freedom to provide services is also in line with the Satellite and Cable Directive2 and with European competition law. Equally, neither does the Conditional Access Directive3 constitute a barrier to the use of foreign decoder cards.
The PL TV rights will be worth a lot less now too I imagine.
With regard to possible justification for the restriction of the freedom to provide services, the Advocate General examines the protection of industrial and commercial property and, in particular, addresses the question whether live satellite transmissions of football matches involve rights the specific subject-matter of which requires a partitioning of the internal market. In this connection she first states that the specific subject-matter of the rights in live football transmissions lies in their commercial exploitation. In the present cases, the live transmission of Premier League football matches is exploited, in particular, through the charge imposed for the decoder cards. Advocate General Kokott takes the view in this connection that the economic exploitation of the rights in question is not undermined by the use of foreign decoder cards, as the corresponding charges have been paid for those cards. Whilst those charges are not as high as the charges imposed in the United Kingdom, there is, according to the Advocate General, no specific right to charge different prices for a work in each Member State. Rather, it forms part of the logic of the internal market that price differences between different Member States should be offset by trade. The marketing of broadcasting rights on the basis of territorial exclusivity is tantamount to profiting from the elimination of the internal market. Consequently, the specific subject-matter of the rights in the transmission of football matches does not justify a partitioning of the internal market, and thus also does not justify the resulting restriction of the freedom to provide services.
Advocate General Kokott further takes the view that the contractual restriction on using decoder cards in the State of origin only for domestic or private use, but not for commercial use – for which a higher subscription charge is payable – also cannot justify a territorial restriction of the freedom to provide services. The Member State concerned may, however, in principle make provision for rights which allow authors to object to the communication of their works in pubs.
So far as concerns the question whether the showing of live transmissions of football matches in pubs infringes the exclusive right of communication to the public of protected works within the terms of the Copyright in the Information Society Directive1, the Advocate General explains that, as EU law stands at present, there are no comprehensive rights which protect the communication of a broadcast to the public where no entrance fee is charged.
Advocate General Kokott further expresses the view that the application of the principle of the freedom to provide services is also in line with the Satellite and Cable Directive2 and with European competition law. Equally, neither does the Conditional Access Directive3 constitute a barrier to the use of foreign decoder cards.
The PL TV rights will be worth a lot less now too I imagine.
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
I'm no fan of Sky but I can't see this being good news for football clubs big or small.
- Hampshire Hammer
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
As you say, we have to wait for the actual court ruling. But it links in to what myself and others have said before, partitioning up PL games into packages is not competition - unless two or more broadcasters can transmit the same games at the same time.
I suspect though there may be some sort of trump card over showing games live at 3pm on a saturday? We will see.
I suspect though there may be some sort of trump card over showing games live at 3pm on a saturday? We will see.
- otter_of_despair
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
But what about my moody subscription to a well known football streaming website?
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
Here in Dubai every single game is shown live over 6 or 7 channels, its ridiculous to think that in England this is not the case.
- Hambrosia Stu
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
It has always seemed utterly ridiculous to me, and sums up Sky's grip on English football, that you can watch pretty much every West Ham game live in many countries, but not the one we actually play in.shammy wrote:Here in Dubai every single game is shown live over 6 or 7 channels, its ridiculous to think that in England this is not the case.
I can't say I've read the ruling and understood all the details. But it seems to me that anything that diminishes Sky's hold over the game has to be a good thing for all concerned
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
This.Hambrosia Stu wrote:It has always seemed utterly ridiculous to me, and sums up Sky's grip on English football, that you can watch pretty much every West Ham game live in many countries, but not the one we actually play in.
I can't say I've read the ruling and understood all the details. But it seems to me that anything that diminishes Sky's hold over the game has to be a good thing for all concerned
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
Depends where you live and which pubs you use of course.Hambrosia Stu wrote: It has always seemed utterly ridiculous to me, and sums up Sky's grip on English football, that you can watch pretty much every West Ham game live in many countries, but not the one we actually play in.
I can't say I've read the ruling and understood all the details. But it seems to me that anything that diminishes Sky's hold over the game has to be a good thing for all concerned
- GideaParkHammer
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
I have said on the Stratford thread, that I see internet streaming, and Al Jazeera TV being a big problem for football attendances in the future. We have seen in Spain and Italy that attendances have been hit due to the fact you can see most games live in any bar.
It is a joint threat. Firstly people can sit at home and watch the game on the TV without the expense and hassle of going to the game, or they can watch it down the warm pub with their mates. Secondly, Sky may not win this case, but I am sure they will not pump so much cash into the game when they see their exclusivity vanishing.
It is a joint threat. Firstly people can sit at home and watch the game on the TV without the expense and hassle of going to the game, or they can watch it down the warm pub with their mates. Secondly, Sky may not win this case, but I am sure they will not pump so much cash into the game when they see their exclusivity vanishing.
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
JonG86 wrote:I thought it was football teams that stopped them showing 3 o clock kickoffs for fear of losing attendances?
It is, I wonder how people would feel watching games on tv at 3pm with grounds half empty.
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
There may be a period of trouble if the Sky deal plummets and clubs have players on contracts which bridge the old and new agreements, but in the long term, the players will "suffer" far more than clubs. The players' wages have exploded in line with the ever increasing tv deals and they would be expected to contract in line with them too. On the whole, clubs have never really made profits at any time. All the money has always just flowed right through them and into the players' wallets.beckton wrote:I'm no fan of Sky but I can't see this being good news for football clubs big or small.
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
If Sky lose some of their power it is great for the game. There would be less money in the game but that would not be a terrible thing and would ultimately lead to a reduction in player wages and football being brought back into line a little.
It would trickle down to fans in the long term with games being made more affordable as gate receipts would once again be valued by football oweners whereas currently it is a small percentage of turnover in comparison to the Sky money.
It would trickle down to fans in the long term with games being made more affordable as gate receipts would once again be valued by football oweners whereas currently it is a small percentage of turnover in comparison to the Sky money.
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
Not necessarily - this only works if the reduction in income is Europe wide. Otherwise all the top players will just go abroad.whitechapel hammer wrote:If Sky lose some of their power it is great for the game. There would be less money in the game but that would not be a terrible thing and would ultimately lead to a reduction in player wages and football being brought back into line a little.
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
So everyone stops supporting all the small local teams because they can all watch chelsea of a saturday down the pub, brilliant idea.shammy wrote:Here in Dubai every single game is shown live over 6 or 7 channels, its ridiculous to think that in England this is not the case.
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
Exactly - but it's also readily available on the internet. They can fine Pubs for illegal broadcasts but streams are a different kettle of fish altogether.JonG86 wrote:I thought it was football teams that stopped them showing 3 o clock kickoffs for fear of losing attendances?
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
Who gives a Monkeys about "top players in Europe"? I remember enjoying the old first division just as much as Brand Premiership. It wasnt as though, Brooking, Hoddle, Brady and Devonshire couldnt play was it?...f*** Sky and their monopoly.
Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
So it's ok to buy decoder from abroad, nothing has changed there at all, the issue is showing to the public and judgement not clear on this. Every TV deal would be under threat across Europe if they say there is no copyright to show matches live. What is the point of a TV deal otherwise? The fact that the share price has hardly moved (0.5%) says it all. The PL do have a rule that no matches shown live at 3pm and that agreement between the PL and Sky has to be enforced.
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Re: Sky lose court case ruling over footy games in pubs
IMO, it is only a matter of time before all Premiership games are shown live on tv and none of them kick off at Saturday 3pm.dapablo wrote:So everyone stops supporting all the small local teams because they can all watch chelsea of a saturday down the pub, brilliant idea.