Carlton Cole

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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Puff Daddy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:41 pm

Mike420 wrote:Carlton has been a great servant to the club, but he's not a good footballer. I like his character, but that's not a reason to offer him a new contract. He simply does not score or create enough goals which lets not forget is his job.

*puts on tin hat*


.... you could add .......... and for which he is handsomely paid
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby richiepap on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:02 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:
Logically, it can't be right (i.e. correct) to conduct yourself wrongly. I can see the counter-argument of 'ends justifying means' or even accept that my argument is in the main semantic, but its false logic to say that one is doing right to break the rules.

Morally, its more a question of taste, in my judgement. I am happier, personally, having a player in the team I support who does not look for fouls - and perhaps even instinctively strives to stay on his feet when others would go down, eyes on ref - but, again, appreciate that my views on sport and gamemanship inform that decision too.

The former, the question of logic is more of an absolute issue. The latter more one of personal opinion.

If, sake of argument, Vaz Te had got away with the most blatant handball in securing us the last gasp promotion we achieved last May, the cheer in my throat would have fallen away almost immediately.

I don't want to cheat to win. Only losers do that.


Because I personally don't think it's black and white. Suarez's handball in the World Cup was instinctive but blatantly deliberate. He also got sent off for it. But they did win the match. I don't think it was anything other than a desperate act from someone who really really wanted to win a match. He knew he'd get sent off but took one for the team. I kind of admire that. I certainly don't see it as sly or malicious or inherently devious.

Robert Huth pulling Upson out of the wall and Stoke subsequently scoring, that I see as sly, malicious and inherently devious. And I certainly wouldn't want El Hadji Diouf anywhere near west Ham.

I'm not sure about the Mansfield goal. It did happen very quickly. I'm tending to think his arm was going to go out that way regardless and the ball hit it. Part of me feels it was wrong but it wouldn't bug me for long if we won today through a goal like that.The clip in the Suarez thread where he bit another player on the neck though, well that is just bizarre. I don't know what to say about that! Animalistic and very very strange.

But it's part of what makes football so entertaining. Seeing Platini's smug grin when Frank Lampard's cracking goal against Germany never stood annoyed the hell out of me! We were definitely on the up in that match at that point and I have little doubt we would have gone on to win it. Do I want goal line technology? No way. I'd rather have the talking points.

Which Carlton is certainly good for. He makes for a great debate if nothing else! He's been a great servant to the club and comes across as a really nice and loyal guy, and definitely a model pro. But for me personally I would be fine with his place in the squad being taken up by someone else.

I also don't feel that Chamakh will be the answer either.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Lincolnhammer92 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:08 pm

We could have Ibrahimovic up front but he wouldn't score goals with the service we were giving Carlton today. We should look at that before moaning about our strikers not scoring goals.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Bill on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:22 pm

Lincolnhammer92 wrote:We could have Ibrahimovic up front but he wouldn't score goals with the service we were giving Carlton today. We should look at that before moaning about our strikers not scoring goals.

Spot on! There was no creativity at all, just hoof it up to an isolated striker who would head down or flick on to nobody. When Cole went off nothing changed. If Carroll or Paulista come in with that service it will make no difference. Where are all these crosses we were promised from our £10m record signing? Jarvis looks really lightweight to me.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Puff Daddy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:27 pm

That was probably his last league game for us. Even if he is not sold next week, there is no way he will be in the starting X1, nor on the bench either, against QPR.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Bill on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:31 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:That was probably his last league game for us. Even if he is not sold next week, there is no way he will be in the starting X1, nor on the bench either, against QPR.

I would doubt that, but BFS needs a scapegoat I suppose. Can't possibly be his tact
ics at fault eh?
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Lincolnhammer92 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:33 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:That was probably his last league game for us. Even if he is not sold next week, there is no way he will be in the starting X1, nor on the bench either, against QPR.


You really do hate him don't you?
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby fjthegrey on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:36 pm

Mike420 wrote:Carlton has been a great servant to the club, but he's not a good footballer. I like his character, but that's not a reason to offer him a new contract. He simply does not score or create enough goals which lets not forget is his job.

*puts on tin hat*


Puff Daddy wrote:.... you could add .......... and for which he is handsomely paid


You could add that for any player in the ****ing league you plum. He isn't paid markedly more than any first choice striker in this league, in fact on average I'd suggest its probably less. Your statement doesn't count for a sodding thing and repeatedly bringing it up isn't going to suddenly attribute it with any credence.

I'd accept criticism of his ability but not of his wages which aren't at all inhibitive or excessive for a club of our size. Other clubs in this league were actually willing to pay him more than us.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Puff Daddy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:48 pm

fjthegrey wrote:
[
You could add that for any player in the ****ing league you plum. He isn't paid markedly more than any first choice striker in this league, in fact on average I'd suggest its probably less. Your statement doesn't count for a sodding thing and repeatedly bringing it up isn't going to suddenly attribute it with any credence.

I'd accept criticism of his ability but not of his wages which aren't at all inhibitive or excessive for a club of our size. Other clubs in this league were actually willing to pay him more than us.


What are you on you ignorant fool ? Who is critisicing his wages ? Honestly, people like you pick up on one thing and put your own interpretation on it. It should be obvious to anybody with half a brain cell, my aside was merely an addition to' Mike420's' excellent asssessment of the entire situation viz Carlton Cole. At the end of the day he is paid to score goals is he not ? and not for being a nice bloke and for his loyalty> god almighty, Give me strength in dealing with peoplle like you
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Westcliff Hammer on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:52 pm

I'd accept criticism of his ability but not of his wages which aren't at all inhibitive or excessive for a club of our size. Other clubs in this league were actually willing to pay him more than us.[/quote]

More mug them then. he has never really been good enough to be a regular front man in this league i'd take him as back up thats about it. Squad player thats all
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:02 am

Periodically this thread becomes an insane joke. Sometimes for very little discernible reason. such as now, all it takes is a rumour in a cr*p paper and a poor performance from virtually the whole team to spark this off again.

Did his detractors see stuff I couldn't see today? As far as I could see he had no service and virtually no support. He's played terrifically for a month yet for some that's either been instantly forgotten or simply dismissed and counts for nothing.

If sentiment is the only reason to keep a player then that is no reason to keep them. But with Carlton that is not the case. It's ironic that in a time when the fans rightly decry managers and players for their lack of loyalty some of those same fans are showing less loyalty to a player than that player has shown to the club that he evidently loves. And don't mention wages. They all earn shed-loads and he could have easily earnt the wage that he does and in a higher division than the one he chose to stay in last season. And had he done so he'd probably be only a year through a three or four year contract as we speak.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby kaybee15 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:10 am

DaveWHU1964 wrote:Periodically this thread becomes an insane joke. Sometimes for very little discernible reason. such as now, all it takes is a rumour in a cr*p paper and a poor performance from virtually the whole team to spark this off again.

Did his detractors see stuff I couldn't see today? As far as I could see he had no service and virtually no support. He's played terrifically for a month yet for some that's either been instantly forgotten or simply dismissed and counts for nothing.

If sentiment is the only reason to keep a player then that is no reason to keep them. But with Carlton that is not the case. It's ironic that in a time when the fans rightly decry managers and players for their lack of loyalty some of those same fans are showing less loyalty to a player than that player has shown to the club that he evidently loves. And don't mention wages. They all earn shed-loads and he could have easily earnt the wage that he does and in a higher division than the one he chose to stay in last season. And had he done so he'd probably be only a year through a three or four year contract as we speak.


This.

Crap game? Blame Carlton. It's f**king b*llocks, and I expected better from some of the posters here. A bad day at the office for all concerned today, no reason to single anyone out. Carlton Cole has been a fantastic servant for this club, and I just hope he's not sold in this window because trust me, we'll miss him when he's gone...
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:15 am

Some interesting points, Richie. I answer two of them:

1. I see instinctive and deliberate action as perhaps separate, but linked, dependent on context. And, with that in mind, I would be much more happy giving the benefit of the doubt to a player other than Suarez (I've already concluded the bloke's a diving cheat with more than one character defect!)

2. Germany would have mullered us, even if Lampard's goal had stood.

Both opinions, of course. Always good to see how other people see things.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Westcliff Hammer on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 am

This.

Crap game? Blame Carlton. It's f**king b*llocks, and I expected better from some of the posters here. A bad day at the office for all concerned today, no reason to single anyone out. Carlton Cole has been a fantastic servant for this club, and I just hope he's not sold in this window because trust me, we'll miss him when he's gone...[/quote]

Really?, What exactly are we going to miss? enlighten me?
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby Puff Daddy on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 am

Lincolnhammer92 wrote: ]

You really do hate him don't you?


Grow up
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:20 am

Westcliff Hammer wrote:
Really?, What exactly are we going to miss? enlighten me?


No. If you can't see what he as often as not, brings to the team then you are un-enlightenable.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby PrinceH on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:22 am

Some people here seems to be purely merchants, and if they could they would like us to be the new Chelski. Not me. If our best striker stays loyal to our cause, I'd stay loyal to him. We are building a team, a spirit. You don't flog each and everyone like in a FIFA 13 game. Sad to hear...

But by the way, the Mirror stake seems false anyway:
"Allardyce also dismissed newspaper reports that he had given permission for striker Carlton Cole to leave Upton Park.

“I haven’t told him he can leave so I don’t know who has told him that he can,” stated the Hammers manager."
(Talksport)
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby ludo22 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:22 am

Mike420 wrote:Carlton has been a great servant to the club, but he's not a good footballer. I like his character, but that's not a reason to offer him a new contract. He simply does not score or create enough goals which lets not forget is his job.

*puts on tin hat*



That is pretty much it really.Maybe time for a change for us and Carlton.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby e17 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:30 am

Lincolnhammer92 wrote:You really do hate him don't you?

He periodically hates everyone in our colours mate

Last week he was going on about dropping Noble, the week before that it was some academy player or other. It's what he does.

Which is a shame, since he's been watching us since about 1950 & you'd think he'd know better.

It's hardly the behaviour of an ultra.
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Re: Carlton Cole

Postby WHU Independent on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:38 am

CC - great servant to the club, nice bloke, loyal, devoted, team player, made sacrifices for the team, gives 100% etc etc - but so were Hurst, Moore and Peters etc: and they all got sold.

I am afraid IMHO he just doesn't have it as a striker: we play him in a 4-5-1 now, but even if we played him in a 4-4-2, or a 4-3-3, he just doesn't cut the mustard. He's not a natural goal scorer, he often floats out of position - especially out to the wing - when he does win a ball in the air, it is not directed; he gives away loads of fouls and loses the ball quite a bit.

When Carroll came, wow what a difference, great in the air, good feet, tackles back: I'd have him over Cole every day. That's not to say Cole is bad, Carroll is just better: that's why he plays for England and Cole doesn't.

Sometimes al la Hurst, Moore and Peters we have to sever times with the past to move on. Now is the time to do it with Carlton. I'll miss him as a team player and as a person, but I don't think we'll miss him as a player, given the current strikers we have.
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