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With the permission of the Mods, can we have this thread on here rather than Match Day Tickets so that guests can view it & to provide it to a wider audience please?
The Stoke away allocation has recently been announced as just 1400. To my knowledge this is the smallest allocation we have asked for since they've been at the Britannia Stadium and comes on the back of many small allocations this season - QPR (a complete joke at 1500); Fulham, etc, whilst some of them maybe were on the face of it justified, like Man U in the FA Cup replay.
I don't expect everybody to think this is an issue at all or agree with this & I'm sure some don't even care cause they don't travel away but IMHO our away allocations are more than a joke now this season. I've given up talking to the ticket office any longer as they point blank refuse to acknowledge that taking reduced allocations creates the self-fulfilling prophecy of low take-up as people can't plan, plus it makes it problematic to arrange joint ST/Members/casual supporters groups & transport. They couldn't seem to care less that with Karren's over-zealous belt-tightening (they admit down to hundreds of pounds, whilst they spend £4.3m on agents fees!!) they are paranoid that if we take an increased allocation anywhere (with the extra number having to be paid for in full) that we might fail to sell out fully. Swansea, where we had a few unsold tickets first game this season has been quoted to me when I've asked the question. I think it cost the club a couple of grand.
We are now taking allocations on a par with teams like Reading, which is quite frankly embarassing. This having gone from having the 2nd biggest average away following in the country last season, behind Leeds. Admittedly, it was the Championship & you get bigger allocations, and you don't have the same payment rules for extra allocations there. Also we were performing well away from home which in itself attracts a greater following. But to move from taking more than 4000 at Barnsley not on a Saturday to then only ask for 1400 at Stoke defies any logic apart from cost-cutting paranoia.
I got gently pulled up the last time on this, but is there anybody on Kumb who is on the Supporters Advisory Board, maybe on some sort of ticketing sub-committee who can make some sort of representation on that basis? This, as opposed to me writing to Debbie Silver, the Ticket Office Manager all the time, getting absolutely nowhere & receiving the usual patronising, although polite responses.
Fully agree that the club need to be pushed on this.
1400 on a Saturday 3pm KO, for a club of our size, is pathetic.
And like you say not the 1st occasion this year, probably not the last.
Penny pinching gone to far here.
Well said Badgers. Its sh*t allocations like Stoke that put me and my mates off even thinking of organising aways in the first place (we're all members). Not to sound like a spoilt child but its just not fair!
Btw Swansea away was a lunchtime KO on Sky, yet another thing Debbie doughnuts fails to take into consideration
Last edited by WindmillWarrior on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Its a joke.
We are being made out to look like a right 2 bob club.
The Stoke decision defies logic, i cannot remember a time where we haven't sold the 3k allocation (Apart from grant season as was on Sky). We even took 6k up there in the cup.
Very rarely do we fail to sell out a Saturday 3'clock game. The club are totally clueless.
What you've got to understand is that allocations are usually done in two stages. An initial allocation then a secondary one if the first sell out. Clubs have to pay for each allocation in full regardless of how many they sell so if WHU take 2500 for Stoke they will have to pay for 2500. If only 2000 buy tickets that leaves the club £15,000 out of pocket. Remember away teams do not make any money on away tickets (cups aside).
Therefore we may have more interest than 1400 but if it's not more than the amount of the secondary allocation Stoke would give us we're not going to take it.
The allocations are also governed buy the home clubs segregation policies so it might not be possible to just tack on an extra few hundred seats it has to be done by whole blocks.
Sale or return,so if they don,t want to put the 1500 x £35 up front,there is nothing anyone can do
You have to remember how many cheap and cheerful days have we had at home this season to
increase the attendances ?
My advice is to approach the club and gurantee you want x amount of tickets for every away game,and
put the money upfront
Add in the fact it was right at the start of the season when a lot of people may have been on holidays still.
I'm in the same boat as you pal, there's 4 of us with season tickets, last season we were able to go away games with mates who were members or not, this season we've had to tell my other mates that we can't do many, if any, away games with them this season as, with lower allocations, I'm not confident of getting tickets outside of the priority point system. The minimum for a Saturday game, no matter what time, should be 2500k, with the option of more once we sell. For any London game, at any time, we should be taking full allocation.
Bloke on WHO said he was on to the TO about Fulham away and asked them if they’d be getting more after the initial 1,700 sold out in jig time. The TO said no because its an evening KO!!!
Look at Villa away, 3,000 tickets no problem (and that’s a sky lunchtime fixture!) so they obviously allow sale or return. Stoke obviously don’t, hence the pathetic smaller allocation
Fulham is only 17-1800 anyway with the neutral zone making up a third/half the stand which away fans can buy tickets for anyway. Fulham also went to STH General sale which meant that it didn't sell out on priority points.
As for Villa, I don't know what their rules are. Maybe they are sale and return. They'd be one of the few clubs left that do that though.
I also think that with ticket and travel prices being so high demand has actually dropped. Whilst I would love to be at every away game with 3000+ hammers I don't think we would realistically take those sort of numbers regularly anyway. I'm not slagging us off or calling us two bob but just think it's a sign of the times. Due to costs some of my mates can't afford to spend £150+ on a day out. These are people who regularly did 90-95% of away games.
Top post Badgers.
We all knew allocations would be smaller this season as Prem clubs don't need our fans to fill their grounds a la the likes of Coventry and Watford. The Barnsley game you mentioned was impressive, great atmosphere, 4500 of us, IIRC it was a bank holiday and it was definitely on BBC or ITV.
However, the allocations this season have been ridiculous, and much smaller than I thought they would be. I appreciate that the club will be out of pocket for tickets they don't sell but we have a decent sized away following and we wouldn't have a problem selling another 1000 on top of the Stoke allocation of 1500.
I love supporting us away from home, everything about it, from the long journeys there and back, being in a different city, the singing, the elation, the disappointment, and it's become extremely difficult to do this now due to the difficulty of getting hold of tickets. I hope these tiny allocations won't become a permanent fixture.
The payment system for away tickets has not changed for some time and the club benefits from unsold tickets from visiting fans so it's swings and roundabouts. We have examples from fans on this thread how it impacts applying for tickets and as a regular attendee of away games I understand 100% where they are coming from.
Last season (admittedly in the Champo) we have our best ever away return in terms of results. Big away followings.
This season on 5 away goals by mid January. Small away followings.
Probably not totally correlated but you have to think it has some form of effect.
Sorry fella but you are wrong with the 1700
Away allocation is up to 2900. This was on our site originally 1700 or 2900.
We took 1700 and could have taken 2900, pure & simple.
We've certainly taken the 2900 every season at Fulham before. We even took it last time when it was what £47 sheets a ticket? this season its cheaper and theyve took the reduced allocation.
Though i will say that when we was in the prem last time under avram we took the 1400 at stoke then too BUT that was an early kick off on sky saturday morning **** game.
overall the away ticketing policy has been joke this season regardless. As aways supporters we've either been ****ed on tickets by WH or by games being moved/held on dates where the transports been ****ed. All season this has happened and its getting tiresome.
As has been said, low allocations reduce demand. I go to some games in north & midlands with my brother who lives in Shrewsbury. If he can't get a ticket I may not go either.
Sometimes it is justified but it seems the club are doing this for almost every game - QPR & Fulham being the worst.
We know who is behind this short sighted penny pinching (or lack of understanding of our support to know how many we would take). Sadly Ms Brady's priority is somewhat more self centered than the fans of West Ham united.
So I'm not wrong then? The allocation is 1700 then a further 1200 if we want, just like I said in my earlier post about secondary allocations. The fact it went to STH general sale would suggest that there wasn't a great interest in the game and fans applied for less than 1700. If there had been applications for 3000 we would have taken the extra 1200. The ticket office are using the PP applications as a gauge for demand. So it seems that despite you and others banging on about taking full allocations here, there and everywhere, it seems that actually the demand isn't there at all. If you think the club are going to gamble £10-15,000 every away game just in case they sell out when evidence suggests otherwise you need to wake up and smell the roses.
The fact that the club are taking the lower allocations is making us question our own support, let alone what others say... We'd have sold 2900 for Fulham. I can guarantee there will be atleast 3500 at Fulham if not more, even Fulham ticket office said they were surprised we had not taken the full allocation.
1. Fulham standard away allocation is 2900. Only clubs like Stoke & Wigan take the reduced allocation. In those circumstances Fulham transfer one section to neutral.
2. Pls explain why Fulham ticket office don't understand why for the first time ever we haven't taken the full allocation & why the fulham ticket thread has half the posters with neutral tickets or why several people in the Hope & Anchor last night had tickets for Arsenal but had to have tickets for Fulham within the neutral section.
3. If you honestly don't think that remaining ST general applicants, members, general sale applicants together would have shifted the extra 1200 Fulham tickets, then it's pointless trying to have a sensible conversation with you. How on earth do you think we shifted 700 tickets on general sale in slightly over a week for Newcastle after they increased our allocation from 2000 to 2800?!
4. As for your laughable OTT £10-15k gamble every game, do us all a favour will you? You're making yourself look ridiculous. Why let a random statement like that get in the way of facts, eh?
For the record:
Swansea - lost £2k (from Debbie Silver herself)
Full allocations & no losses - Norwich, Spurs, Reading, Arsenal
No limit allocations, no penalty for unsold tickets - Wigan (took over 4000); Sunderland, Villa
Reduced allocation - QPR the ticket office took this allocation PRIOR to PP applications. We'd have shifted 3000 dead easily.
Reduced allocation - Man Utd twice (both probably justified)
Reduced allocation - Newcastle (as above, but as proven, we would have easily shifted the full 2800)
Reduced allocation - WBA took 1800 then given extra 900 at no penalty to us. Let's humour you & say if we'd taken them all up front, we'd have lost £10-15k, but given posters comments above we wouldn't have, especially with WBA's £10 ticket offers.
That makes potental absolute worst case scenario to date of £17k total.
Looking forward, we'll sell out at Chelsea, Southampton (as there's loads of private coaches going), Liverpool where as a minimum you always get exactly the same 1500 people travelling so not to miss the 1st time we might win there since 63.
That leaves Stoke, Man City & Everton, the last two of which I think the T/O will also take reduced allocations. Lets humour you again and say we took full allocations for those & lost an average of £12k per game.
Total absolute worst case scenario of £53k for the whole season against the goodwill that creates with our away supporters (btw do you travel away?) plus the increased support the team receives away, which might generate one positive result. One place in the PL generates an extra £800k.
As a supporter I would rather the club looked to spend their money this way & instead reduce their agents bill from £4.3m to £4.25m. You obviously don't.
As you kindly suggested I did earlier, and stopped "banging on", maybe, just maybe it's you who needs to get your facts right & wake up & smell the roses yourself rather than me pal.