Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Puff Daddy on Thu May 16, 2019 5:00 pm

Colours never run wrote:
Pellegrini's. It's always the manager's ultimate responsibility to make sure the Team are bang at it from the start, if that's the tactic.


That being the case, then surely as captain, he should ensure we do, shouldn't he ?
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Thu May 16, 2019 5:05 pm

For sure. I've had similar complaints about Bilic who often failed to get us at it as a team. They're both great at 2nd half motivation though, so can be swings and roundabouts. Noble can only do so much, but it's stretching it a bit to expect him to make every player perform out of their skin when he's also got his own game to worry about. It comes from the manager to set the right tone and mind set for the Team for that particular fixture. Some games it's not necessary and might be more important to get them to perform in the 2nd half. Just depends on who we play but yes responsibility lies with the manager.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby bubbles1966 on Thu May 16, 2019 6:48 pm

YorksHammer wrote:WhoScored has Noble rated as our sixth best player to have made over 30 appearances this season..


We only have 6.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Longaz on Thu May 16, 2019 8:05 pm

YorksHammer wrote:WhoScored has Noble rated as our sixth best player to have made over 30 appearances this season.

Assist leader (5 - joint with Snodgrass) and fifth highest scorer for the season.


...And our 14th best player to have played 12 or more games. The likes of Ogbonna, Zabaleta, Masuaku and Arnautovic who turnt up for half the season all scored a higher rating. In terms of he's fellow CM's in the premier league, only counting those that played a minimum of half the games (19) he came in 38th out of 46 players, sandwiched between Brighton midfielder Davy Propper and Cardiff's Aaron Gunnarsson.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Ding on Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 pm

I remember as many games where Nobes was woeful as he was brilliant. As an average I would rate him 6.5/7 over the course of the season. He is one paced and his passing ability only comes to the fore as one of a midfield three. He consistently got killed as a two. I think he has been a wonderful servant to the club and seems like a good bloke to have around. But he must be upgraded upon and a superior replacement must be put in place (or phased in) next season.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Lil Joe 17 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Ding wrote:I remember as many games where Nobes was woeful as he was brilliant. As an average I would rate him 6.5/7 over the course of the season. He is one paced and his passing ability only comes to the fore as one of a midfield three. He consistently got killed as a two. I think he has been a wonderful servant to the club and seems like a good bloke to have around. But he must be upgraded upon and a superior replacement must be put in place (or phased in) next season.


To be fair Ding, 6.5 out of 7 is not a bad score... even if your rating system is a bit weird. :lol:
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby sutts07 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:05 pm

Ding wrote: He consistently got killed as a two.


Was it just him that consistently got killed?

I'd say it is fair to say... we consistently got killed as a two if you really have to make that statement. Any combo from Rice, Obiang, Snodgrass, Sanchez, Wilshere, Nasri and Noble... played as a two, were totally overrun.

Not sure we can use that as a stick to hit Noble with, but am sure that many will regardless.

Ding wrote:he must be upgraded upon and a superior replacement must be put in place (or phased in) next season.


If enough of you keep saying that every year, sooner or later you will all be bang on the money.
A broken clock eventually gets the time right.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Thu May 16, 2019 9:07 pm

sutts07 wrote:
I'd say it is fair to say... we consistently got killed as a two if you really have to make that statement. Any combo from Rice, Obiang, Snodgrass, Sanchez, Wilshere, Nasri and Noble... played as a two, were totally overrun.



100%
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Ding on Thu May 16, 2019 9:28 pm

sutts07 wrote:If enough of you keep saying that every year, sooner or later you will all be bang on the money.
A broken clock eventually gets the time right.


You mean a broken clock gets the time right twice a day. :)

Regardless, in the context of the point I am making at this particular moment in time (ie a superior replacement needs to be phased in next season) - a moment in time when he is 32(?) and will surely decline in the not too distant future, do you not agree that a successor needs to be put in place?

Thus perhaps this is the time when the broken clock gets the time right?
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby sutts07 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm

Looking at his performances of late, no, I'd say that we have other areas to focus on IMO.

Even if we do bring in a top quality CM this summer, I'd still expect Noble to be starting as part of the three. It would be the likes of Snodgrass, Wilshere, Nasri and Obiang that would drop out of contention.

Manager after manager, season after season, they all start Noble in their preferred XI.
They can't all be wrong.

Besides,who is everyone going to moan about once Noble is 'phased out'?
Is it too soon to start digging Rice out??
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Georgee Paris on Thu May 16, 2019 9:57 pm

Noble looked better than Lanzini all season.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Ding on Thu May 16, 2019 10:41 pm

sutts07 wrote:Looking at his performances of late, no, I'd say that we have other areas to focus on IMO.

Even if we do bring in a top quality CM this summer, I'd still expect Noble to be starting as part of the three. It would be the likes of Snodgrass, Wilshere, Nasri and Obiang that would drop out of contention.

Manager after manager, season after season, they all start Noble in their preferred XI.
They can't all be wrong.

Besides,who is everyone going to moan about once Noble is 'phased out'?
Is it too soon to start digging Rice out??


Sutts07

Looking at his recent performance alone, Nobes would be undroppable. But surely you must see that he has not sustained that level of performance consistently? Anyway, that’s not the issue. The issue is succession planning, which is best done ahead of time.

As for if we get in a top CM, you see Nobes playing ahead of others, I wouldn’t be so sure. The persistence that Pellers has shown in wanting to play two in midfield this season means there is a high chance he will do the same next season. I can’t see Nobes beating out Rice and our shiny new CM unless one of them turns out to be rubbish. And if there were a top DM in place, even a midfield three would have Nobes competing against the likes of Wilshire or Lanzini (or any new creative CM addition) for the last “creative” midfield place. In such a scenario, he will need to keep playing at the levels he has played recently to keep his place. I can’t see that happening. He’ll play for sure, but probably increasingly as a squad player.

The problem with the “manager after manager has chosen him” argument is that he gets old like all of us and someday he will decline physically till it is no longer possible for him to compete. At that point the manager will phase him out. The issue isn’t whether successive manager has picked him. The issue is it will be soon necessary to begin to replace him. I am saying that it should begin next season.

With regards to digging Rice out, I am not aware of anyone doing so (certainly not me). But as soon as he becomes as frustrating as sometimes Nobes can be, I am sure someone will, and rightly so.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Thu May 16, 2019 10:47 pm

He plays well, we play well. And I can recall on many occasions this season when we have played well, win, lose or draw. I'd also add the flip does happen when he has an off game (or doesn't play), the team suffers too but the ratio of decent quality performances exceeds that of the occasional piss poor one.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby bubbles1966 on Thu May 16, 2019 11:10 pm

sutts07 wrote:Was it just him that consistently got killed?


He's been a constant in the same problem for years. All the other variables have been changed, yet there's been no improvement.

sutts07 wrote:Manager after manager, season after season, they all start Noble in their preferred XI.
They can't all be wrong.
.

They've all been sacked. Him playing in a two is just one of those absolute 'no' decisions. It's one of the things that killed Bilic; that made Moyes play three centre backs and led to Pellegrini leaving him out on a number of occasions.

Noble's upturns in form have, for years now, always coincided with the insurance of either a third midfielder alongside or a third defender behind.

It enables him to concentrate on passing and creating - which he is good at - rather than doing the defensive/athletic/combative stuff, which he isn't.

He's a perfectly fine option - so long as it is in a three.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Wilko1304 on Fri May 17, 2019 5:27 am

Don't think we finish top ten without him, that late season drive and form he got went and pushed us into it, dragged us to a top half finish. Antonio needs credit too.

We have midfielders who have specific skills. Snodgrass has the motor, the energy and workrate. Noble has guile and creativity, an ability to play passes forward and comfortable on the ball under pressure, Rice is calm, clever, covers every gap and can play one-touch in deep positions.

To upgrade, we need to find players who can do one of Snoddy or Noble's strengths, but with a lot of strengths of the other too. And we need some pace, that's for sure.

I think our best midfield three is going to include Lanzini anyway, who presses well, goes forward with the ball from many positions and keeps things ticking over with progression too. Not in every game, though.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Patito on Fri May 17, 2019 9:03 am

bubbles1966 wrote:They've all been sacked.


To be fair, I don't think Allardyce or Moyes were sacked were they?
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby -DL- on Fri May 17, 2019 9:20 am

I know certain sections of our fan base have had and always will have the knives out for Noble, much the same as there are those on the other side of the spectrum. there never seems to be those that are in between, and if there are, they're pretty quiet.

My take on Noble, is that he is a pretty average player. That's not a criticism, but that I've always felt he's not that great a player, but not a bad player either.

It's going to take a brave manager to be the one to go to the board and ask for money to replace him, and apart from the Payet season, and The Championship season, I've thought that's what we should have done for some time. But, the problem is, he has this little run of games where we pull out a few results, or scores a decent goal and the 'he's great' end of the spectrum gets all a bit tetchy and becomes all 'oh his legs have gone have they', much like the 'he's ****' end of the spectrum gets when he isn't doing too great.

He needs to be upgraded. It's a pretty rare occasion where he'll take a game by the scruff of the neck, which is why it's so noticeable when he does. It's not the norm, and for the role he plays, plus the fact he's our captain, for me, I would have liked him to have done it a bit more.

Now I'd like to reiterate, he's not a bad player, far from it. Now granted, a long line of managers have chosen to pick him - but on the other hand, there's been nobody else really to take his place, so I do wonder how much of that has been out of choice or out of necessity. Again, it would have taken a brave manager to go to the board and ask for the funds for a replacement. I think it would have been a very short conversation.

I think now, the time has definitely come where we should be looking to upgrade him, and to be honest, I think that time actually came at least a couple of seasons ago. To replace him on ability alone, I would imagine wouldn't be that particularly difficult - but one thing you couldn't replace is his getting of the club, knowing what the club is about, what it actually means to him - I get that bit, that bit is priceless, and short of finding another academy graduate that's also a lifelong supporter. we won't get that.

He has been the first name on the team sheet for quite some time, and I can't help but wonder if we've been slightly hamstrung because of that.

Any player we do sign to replace him, I don't envy in the slightest, because they are going to have their work cut out - because they are going to have big boots to fill, because they are not Mark Noble. But when we do find that replacement, the replacement that's a clear upgrade, that can perform at a consistent level, week in, week out, we're going to be a pretty good team.

I like Mark Noble - he's a character. The last we'll probably see of his type, a one club man for his boy-hood club. Roy of the Rovers stuff. But we can, and I think we should, be looking to get someone in that's better if we are to progress.

I'd like to think he's one of the rare breed that's now got a job for life with WHU in some capacity, he deserves it, but to carry on being the first name on the teamsheet next season, but sorry - not for me.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby YorksHammer on Fri May 17, 2019 9:35 am

YorksHammer wrote:WhoScored has Noble rated as our sixth best player to have made over 30 appearances this season..


bubbles1966 wrote:We only have 6.


Yikes - I just picked an arbitrary number of games and counted down to Noble, didn't look further. Wasn't saying it as a positive or negative thing, either, more just a stat. Seems a bit worthless now, though.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Fri May 17, 2019 9:58 am

-DL- wrote:I know certain sections of our fan base have had and always will have the knives out for Noble, much the same as there are those on the other side of the spectrum. there never seems to be those that are in between, and if there are, they're pretty quiet...


:thup: exactly.

Noble - a great servant to the club, good at some things, not so good at other things.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Fri May 17, 2019 10:30 am

I'm struggling to recall anyone calling Noble a 'great' player, I'm assuming in the sense of say a Scholes type. He does however have the occasional great game, like against Spurs or indeed Watford. For me he always has been Mr Consistent though in the top flight and that's a huge well deserved compliment considering his longevity in the 1st Team as a regular starter. He's a consistent 7/10 during his entire career (just like his most recent season at 32), sometimes a 5 or 6, sometimes an 8 or a 9 performance. My only regret for him was 2 things, he hasn't enjoyed the chance to play with top class Players like Payet, Anderson more in his career, often in mediocre sides struggling to compete a lot of the time and that he's also been asked to play holding Midfield for far too long in his early spells of his career when he really should have been encouraged to get forward more.
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