Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:23 pm

Burnley


The argument about Noble isn't that we'd never win without Noble, the argument against Noble has always been we'd be better off with him out of the side, yet all the evidence points towards the opposite. In 11 games, there's been plenty of opportunity at different stages for the Team to perform better and pick up the results to back it up yet it's not happened. To be honest, I'm actually a little surprised myself the evidence points overwhelmingly in Noble's favour, even I would have expected us to at least win a game without him. So for sure, it says a lot of how influential he is on the side when he does play as opposed to when he doesn't.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:33 pm

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one CNR. I just can't call it overwhelming evidence based of just 11 games since 2014. If the opposite was also true - ie that we had an amazingly great record when he did play, then I might concede that there's something in it.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:36 pm

I'm not trying to argue that he's not influential by the way. He most likely is.... but not THAT influential. I would strongly suspect that if we had a sample size of a 100 games instead of just 11, the stats would look a little less dramatic.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:41 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one CNR. I just can't call it overwhelming evidence based of just 11 games since 2014. If the opposite was also true - ie that we had an amazingly great record when he did play, then I might concede that there's something in it.




But we did have a great record with him playing last season in both the League and Cup. We wouldn't have done so well without him otherwise.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:45 pm

But not a great record this season. So maybe the fact of whether we win or lose has to do with a multitude of other variables and not just whether Noble plays.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:52 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:I'm not trying to argue that he's not influential by the way. He most likely is.... but not THAT influential. I would strongly suspect that if we had a sample size of a 100 games instead of just 11, the stats would look a little less dramatic.




Don't sound it...

Not 1 solitary win without him and at different periods of time. That's extremely coincidental if it's not relevant or it is what it is and that's proof he influences the side more by playing than when he doesn't.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:54 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:But not a great record this season. So maybe the fact of whether we win or lose has to do with a multitude of other variables and not just whether Noble plays.




But we have won games this season when we haven't played well collectively with him playing. Not once without him.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:02 pm

I'm sorry but all you've found is a cherry picked correlation that, on it's own, is not really conclusive proof of anything.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:09 pm

I've not cherry picked a thing. Someone has put forward stats of when he doesn't play during the past few consecutive seasons of when he doesn't actually play, which is rare in itself because he's usually such a reliable virtual 'ever present'. 11 games is a lot (more than a quarter of a season) considering he's usually picked so it's difficult to give a bigger sample size under those circumstances.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:13 pm

What was the record like for the 3 years before that particular point in 2014?
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Colours never run on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:17 pm

Wouldn't know, not seen them yet. I'd be just as intrigued as you to see them.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:21 pm

Because it seems as though they might tell a different story, which is why that particular date in 2014 was chosen.

Again to clarify, I'm not questioning Noble or his ability. I'm simply questioning the use of this stat as evidence
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Rocketron on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:Because it seems as though they might tell a different story, which is why that particular date in 2014 was chosen.

Again to clarify, I'm not questioning Noble or his ability. I'm simply questioning the use of this stat as evidence

Sorry to interrupt your cosy chat
Noble has been picked by every manager since he appeared on the scene.
He must at least be "quite good". :wink:
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:42 pm

I'm not disputing that at all Rocketron. Quite good is a fair description.

Meanwhile, the fact that many on here questioned the selection decisions that many of those managers made goes quietly ignored.

Sorry, I'm just being argumentative now for the sake of it :D
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby thejackhammer on Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:30 am

Burnley Hammer wrote:I'm not disputing that at all Rocketron. Quite good is a fair description.

Meanwhile, the fact that many on here questioned the selection decisions that many of those managers made goes quietly ignored.

Sorry, I'm just being argumentative now for the sake of it :D


I'm guessing the Leicester game was chosen because the game he missed before then, whenever that may have been, we must have won.

I have no idea how the stats before that game add up seeing as Noble has been first choice under every manager for the past 10 years...
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby hammerman11 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:14 am

Noble has been a fine player for us for the past 10 years. no doubt about it. He is not the best in the premier league and has never been chased by a bigger club apart from arsenal about 8 years ago. He has been more than useful for a club of our size and lack of success. However, his legs are going and combined with a larger pitch he cannot get to the ball as much as he used to. He is still a valuable member of the squad and were he not suspended would have played last week and against everton on saturday. He will be missed. However we must start planning for him not being an automatic first choice soon. Maybe that time has not yet come as this has been a poor season by all our players except lanzini antonio and reid. So with stats you can prove anything.
For the time being when fit Nobes plays.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:39 am

Put better players around Noble and you see a better Noble. :thup:
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby hammerman11 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:55 am

Agree but we have tried this a few times.
antonio obiang noble lanzini

now we could have fegouli noble kouyate fernandez
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:34 am

westham,eggyandchips wrote:Put better players around Noble and you see a better Noble. :thup:


To be fair, that could probably be applied to any player.

And... if the opposite is also true, then that explains why every player we sign suddenly looks worse once he starts playing for us.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Sauce! on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:36 am

Rocketron wrote:Sorry to interrupt your cosy chat
Noble has been picked by every manager since he appeared on the scene.
He must at least be "quite good". :wink:


Apart from England legend "Roy" Hodgson.
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