spod wrote:If you look at his passing stats against Bournemouth, they're good.
But his defensive stats are poor.
You've got to think he's a passing player, not a defensive midfielder.
The question is, then, why do successive managers keep asking him to win the ball back as well as be creative with it? He's just not cut out for it.
Because he's not a good enough creative player to be worth putting on the pitch as an attacking mid. At his best Noble did most things fairly well and nothing (bar penalties) at an elite level. The problem as he's lost steps has been that his defense has suffered, and he doesn't create anywhere near enough chances to justify it. Moyes and Pellegrini have both seemed to give some thought to whether he could play deeper, where pace isn't as important, and be a bit better distributor than a Rice or Kouyate. The problem has been that he's struggled there, in part because he takes poor angles and gets caught up field (also he lunges, gets a yellow then is timid the rest of the way).
Mark is one of my favorite players over the last decade, but it's becoming more and more difficult to see how he fits a successful Premier league squad. He's not creative enough to be an attacking midfielder, and he doesn't defend well enough to be a defensive one.
It's why it's important that Noble and indeed Wilshere (like it proved at Arsenal) need a dedicated Defensive Midfielder behind them so they can concentrate more on what they are both best at which is passing for fun knitting play without constantly having to firefight defending. It's not what either are best suited too although they do both have moderate success at doing their fair share of getting stuck in, so it's not like they can't do a bit of that side of the game, they just shouldn't be regularly relied upon as makeshift DMs.
Whether it's Obiang, Rice, Sanchez or another brought in the winter window, we just play with a Defensive Midfielder detailed solely on protecting the defence and nothing else venturing forward other than passing it on once retrieving possession to those who can open up defences or feed it into the right areas of the pitch where the likes of Arnie, Hernandez, Yarmolenko, Anderson can do serious damage.
It would also really help to move out some very suspect defenders for better alternatives which I'm hoping Diop can make a real difference as an example. I'd also prefer Cresswell as a full back in a back four, at the moment I only really like Masuaku as a wingback as he just didn't look convincing in a flat back four.
Cellar-door wrote:
At his best Noble did most things fairly well and nothing (bar penalties) at an elite level.
Define 'elite'...?
Just interested because I'd say that holding down a starting place for over a decade and taking the captains armband at a club in the Premier League, racking up close to 400 professional first team appearances in your career along the way is fairly elite in the grand scheme of things.
Noble is a very solid all rounder. He is not a defensive specialist like Makelele or Kante and he is not an attacking specialist like Hazard or De Bruyne. He is a solid, decent all rounder.
There are three very different jobs to cover off in the centre of a modern day midfield and for years now we have been asking Noble to do all three, more often than not, at the same time. Noble (more than anyone) is crying out for a solid defensive midfield player to sit behind him so that he can concentrate on playing further up the pitch, linking up with Wilshere and doing what he is actually good at.
If Rice isn't ready and Sanchez isn't fit then we should have been playing Obiang.
At the risk of repeating myself, we cannot afford to just play two in the middle, regardless of who the two are.
You look at that and see Noble as the one to blame...?
Despite the fact it is a centre forward who picks up the ball on the half way line with all four of our defenders still to beat...?
If our back four could defend there would be no issue here.
What the **** was that tackle from Balbuena?
Why didn't Ogbonna drop deep in behind Balbuena, just in case Wilson got through?
Why did Zabaleta dive in as opposed to track the run and see him out wide?
Why is Masuaku not busting a gut to get back either?
Last edited by sutts07 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
So the answer is not even going near Wilson? Not even running alongside him not touching him? Giving Balbuena a chance to not commit a weak-ass tackle?
There's blame all over the place on that goal, but if Noble tracks him Wilson doesn't have the freedom of the London Stadium to run where he wants, he might get forced onto Balbuena's other side and end up battling with Obgonna and Masuaku instead of a desperate slide tackle from Zabaleta.
So many things could've happened differently, but you have to see your midfielder keeping up with play.
HammerMan2004 wrote:
There's blame all over the place on that goal, but if Noble tracks him
There you have it.
Blame all over the place but let's some are hammering Noble because it adds weight to their argument against him.
I haven't seen the Balbuena or Zabaleta threads fly to the top of the forum with them getting dug out for this goal.
For me, at no point should Noble be thinking, I need to get back in there because Wilson is going to score. It was one on four. We shouldn't have needed a fifth.
Last edited by sutts07 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
sutts07 wrote:
And what point might you be trying to make there, in this thread??
Do you feel that Noble should be getting more abuse than he currently gets?
Well, it's the thread about Noble. Not a thread about Zabaleta, or Balbuena. I hadn't seen this video posted in this thread, so I posted it.
Blame all over the place but let's some are hammering Noble because it adds weight to their argument against him.
I haven't seen the Balbuena or Zabaleta threads fly to the top of the forum with them getting dug out for this goal.
Most people have called for both of them to be dropped, for varying reasons that include that goal.
Noble however seems to be in the team regardless of how good or bad he is, and thus it warrants more discussion.
Let's call it right, in the order of blame there, Noble is in front of Masuaku and probably ahead of Zabaleta given that Zab only came across once Wilson had gone past Balbuena but Noble let him run off of him and didn't pressure him at all.
Just throwing this out there..... didn't watch Match of the Day but from reading umpteen articles from umpteen pundits - not one seems to have criticised Noble for his part in that match or the Liverpool one - it has mostly been West Ham fans (which is up to them and many read the game extremely well) that have lambasted him.
That said I read one article from one of the big sites (Sky, BBC etc can't remember which one) and Noble got a 5 along with most of the team except Zabaleta - 7, Ogbonna - 7 and Anderson 8!!!!!!!!!!! This was from a pundit - so we all read the game differently.
I saw some beautiful passes from Noble and that I felt he let Wilson go because he was on a yellow with loads of cover goal side. As others have said he could (and should) have tracked his run and made things as difficult as possible, without fouling him (or lunging in). The others involved in that defensive play were much more to blame. He made a mistake - he trusted the twats behind him.
I just think his legs have gone he couldn't run fast enough to catch Wilson.
I think the answer to Nobles jogging about and his lack of pace is Usain Bolt in our midfield. Geezer has just won got himself a contract at some Aussie team. He don't look too bad a footballer judging from those TV advertisements and just think of this......... Do you think Wilson scores if he had him hard on his heels ?