Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Kendal Iron on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:16 am

miles wrote:An average 68 percent pass completion rate like yesterday will lead to disaster sooner or later. Once things have calmed down a little he must be straight back in the side.


Spot on, neither Kouyate nor Obiang's passing is good enough to play together week in, week out
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:19 am

miles wrote:An average 68 percent pass completion rate like yesterday will lead to disaster sooner or later. Once things have calmed down a little he must be straight back in the side.


Kendal Iron wrote:Spot on, neither Kouyate nor Obiang's passing is good enough to play together week in, week out



Why the obsession with passing stats?

Mark is a good passer, but its hardly helped our cause lately has it??

Pressing the opposition into making mistakes which leads to goals is far more important than all this pass completion nonsense.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby mumbles87 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:24 am

miles wrote:An average 68 percent pass completion rate like yesterday will lead to disaster sooner or later. Once things have calmed down a little he must be straight back in the side.


id rather 68 average completion of passes forward rather than marks completion of sideways and backwards passing
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Nesticles on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:31 am

Without Noble, Rice and Lanzini (especially) watching us to try to pass the ball at times last night was frightening

At 'home' especially in games going forward, you would hope we'll be better on the ball
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Kendal Iron on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:33 am

westham,eggyandchips wrote:

Why the obsession with passing stats?



Because teams that don't keep possession tend to lose more than they win. As others had remarked on the match thread, we got away with it last night because Huddersfield were not good enough to take advantage
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby somerset-hammer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:39 am

Confidence was/is low.

Lastnight was all about hard work and passion - we got it.

Hopefully with more confidence, simple things like passing will improve.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby fjthegrey on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:42 am

westham,eggyandchips wrote:Why the obsession with passing stats?

Mark is a good passer, but its hardly helped our cause lately has it??

Pressing the opposition into making mistakes which leads to goals is far more important than all this pass completion nonsense.

So you don't want us to play any passing football then? Just give the opposition the ball and then hound them into mistakes?
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby dodger on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:51 am

Kendal Iron wrote:
Spot on, neither Kouyate nor Obiang's passing is good enough to play together week in, week out

Not that I really care that much about passing accuracy stats as I judge more on end product (i.e. are we creating more chances than the opposition), but Obiang's passing accuracy yesterday was 83%, about the same as Noble's usual percentage. Kouyate's was lower but we all know that Kouyate offers many other attributes.

It's amazing what straws those who want Noble to play no matter what will keep clutching.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:51 am

Obiangs individual pass completion was much better than the team average. In fact it was the best out of all our players on the night. I'm not quite sure why he's being picked out to demonstrate our poor passing. There were much worse.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby dodger on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:53 am

fjthegrey wrote:So you don't want us to play any passing football then? Just give the opposition the ball and then hound them into mistakes?

Who was hoofing it though? Certainly not Kouyate and Obiang. Was usually our defenders and full backs. If they are being told to go long that is not the fault of the central midfielders.

We need to play a mixed game. Our best passer is Lanzini, not Noble. Get him on the pitch and suddenly we can go wide, pass through the middle or go long if necessary, which is a good mix of options.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Burnley Hammer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:56 am

Our best passer in central defence happens to be the one most criticised. Our best passer in central midfield suffers the same. As does our fullback with the best passing stats. Clearly, being a good passer doesn't do much to win the fans over. And yet we all wanted a record signing defensive midfielder that's more carrick than kante, and who's greatest strength was intelligent distribution from deep. Wouldn't have been long before he started to suffer the criticism too.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:13 am

fjthegrey wrote:So you don't want us to play any passing football then? Just give the opposition the ball and then hound them into mistakes?


I want us to win football matches. If a certain way doesn't work, then try another. We've had plenty of games where the pretty passes and high % were completed and still lost.

I hate the term "must win" but last night was just that for Slav and he changed formation, tactics and personnel. It appeared to have worked. Who knows whether it'll work against better opponents......he may have to change it again.

But passing stats can do one, they're like possession stats, totally irrelevant and brought in like some NFL obsession.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby YorksHammer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:32 am

Burnley Hammer wrote:Obiangs individual pass completion was much better than the team average. In fact it was the best out of all our players on the night. I'm not quite sure why he's being picked out to demonstrate our poor passing. There were much worse.


Significantly many worse than Obiang last night, who was the only guy I felt confident would play with his head up and look for a pass to make at times.

The whole team were poor otherwise, but most notably Kouyate, Zabaleta, and Cresswell - we need better from those three players (or whoever plays in those positions) than averaging a 64-68% completion rate. Other, more savvy, midfields will snatch those loose passes and turn them into chances.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Adam 'The Smudge' on Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:07 am

miles wrote:An average 68 percent pass completion rate like yesterday will lead to disaster sooner or later. Once things have calmed down a little he must be straight back in the side.


Kendal Iron wrote:Spot on, neither Kouyate nor Obiang's passing is good enough to play together week in, week out



westham,eggyandchips wrote:Why the obsession with passing stats?

Mark is a good passer, but its hardly helped our cause lately has it??

Pressing the opposition into making mistakes which leads to goals is far more important than all this pass completion nonsense.

Very true eggy. Leicester won a title based on counter attacking.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Johnzo on Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:57 pm

Still comes in for clumbsy kouyate for me
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:23 pm

Adam 'The Smudge' wrote:Very true eggy. Leicester won a title based on counter attacking.


You can't counter attack without being able to pass a ball

Play like we did last night and we will lose far more games than we will win, plus it will be fairly pony to watch
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Jumby on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:25 pm

Noble is better than Kouyate, and better for the team too.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Andytheammer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:33 pm

You telling me with that attacking line up Noble would still be passing sideways?
That said I'm not convinced he's capable of covering the ground needed when we pressed high up.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Jumby on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:37 pm

Andytheammer wrote:You telling me with that attacking line up Noble would still be passing sideways?
That said I'm not convinced he's capable of covering the ground needed when we pressed high up.


Exactly, he picks the right pass, more than he doesn't, and more than most, but if there's f**k all available in front of him he won't pass it forward for the sake of it or for the sake of forward pass stats.

I still can't believe Noble got the flack for Snodgrass punting the ball against Fehgouli and then Chelsea countering to score, it's things like that that make me take most criticism of Noble with a pinch of salt.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Postby Topbre_22 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:40 pm

In terms of work-rate and ground covered, I'd rather go with Obiang and Kouyate although Kouyate gambles a bit too much with his forward runs which then leaves a big hole. I'm not too fussed about all this obsession with passing stats. Yes Noble is probably the best passer in our MF (excluding lanzini) but are they penetrative passes? Is it reflected in his assists? I'm asking the question as I don't have the stats.
If we're going to play with 3 up front I dont think noble can cover the ground playing in a midfield 2.
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