Mark Noble - West Ham Legend 500 up

[carnage]

You can't just be a good passer in modern football, especially so in the Premier League.

His passing doesn't even stand out as anything spectacular. It's just safe 90% of the time. It's not even close to Bishop or Moncur.

Noble offers nothing else suitable for Premier League football. And if you want Noble and Lanzini as the midfield 2 then you are back to shipping 2 goals a game again.

[bubbles1966]

I'm sure it's clear in your mind , and of course you're under no obligation to explain it so I understand it , but we have a squad containing Carroll, Hernandez, Arnautovic, Zabaleta , Ayew and Antonio .

Who's playing most weeks ?

Or rather, who isn't ?

The attackers are in the 18 every game. They all played yesterday. The blend at any one time is up to Slaven just as it was with Payet Lanzini Carroll Moses Sakho Zarate Antonio etc

Zabaleta appears to be the kind of model pro who will do whatever job the manager wants.

[brooking1966]

My preferred midfield of all is Noble Lanzini Obiang in a midfield 3 (352). Kouyate has a place in my team but it's part of a back 3. But if we are going with just 2 in the middle, it would be Obiang and Noble with Lanzini floating about as part of a front 3.

I agree that Kouyate is possibly along with Reid our best CB, but I wouldn't replace his midfield spot with legless Noble,as the midfield becomes too passive & weak. The only way I would allow Cheik to play CB is if we had a DM/CB who could slot ito CB allowing Kouyate to use his engine & presence through the middle on the break (Oxford would be my choice). His willingness & drive to cover the whole pitch puts us on the front foot.

Kouyate CM please against Tottenham's physical CM of Ali/Dier/Dembele/Wanyama we need him as Noble will be badly mismatched. Lanzini isn't 90mins match fit to do the donkey work in the middle Noble's too slow, which will leave OB1 overwhelmed imo

[bubbles1966]

Noble will be fine against Tottenham. He won't have to run about because they will come onto us. Kouyate will probably replace Ginge at CB. Carroll may well sit this one out.

[the pink palermo]

The attackers are in the 18 every game. They all played yesterday.

Yes, they all played yesterday and if they carried on playing all night right up to now they still wouldn't have scored against West Brom in the formation you believe to be our best .

So does our entire attacking capability really hinge on one single player, Lanzini ?

Or are we better suited to a 3-5-2 ?

Did Antonio or Hernandez really threaten yesterday ? Move one of them in beside Carroll and they might offer more if there is a player or preferably two to find them with a pass ?

[carnage]

I'd put Antonio at right wing back in a 3-5-2. That's if Bilic is allowed to do that from the start. At the moment he is having to accommodate Antonio as a side striker in a 3. Antonio is better with the game in front of him in my opinion. That would then allow Carroll and Hernandez as the 2 with Obiang and Kouyate in the middle.

[the pink palermo]

I'd put Antonio at right wing back in a 3-5-2. That's if Bilic is allowed to do that from the start. At the moment he is having to accommodate Antonio as a side striker in a 3. Antonio is better with the game in front of him in my opinion. That would then allow Carroll and Hernandez as the 2 with Obiang and Kouyate in the middle.

You're nearly there Carnage, just one more common sense tablet to swallow and I reckon you'll get there .

[carnage]

:lol:

[MB]

Your strikers have to work their nuts off in a 352 as someone has to occupy the opposition fullbacks or your wing backs will constantly get doubled up on as the formation lacks width. A bit like a 442 diamond.

Is Carroll up for that?

The big problem at the moment is that no formation fits all our best players in their best roles. 4231 is the closest we get, but then we get murdered.

[bubbles1966]

Now that Payet has gone, Lanzini is undoubtedly the critical player in making us tick in a fluid way.

We can hurt many teams with the more physical alternative approach of Carroll and Antonio, but WBA are perhaps uniquely qualified to handle that.

Yesterday was largely about maintaining some momentum to pull in some points and edge back towards the pack.

We've been the better team in our last two games. We should get past Bolton and then we have a pair of home games against a probable top 6 team and a bottom half one. Let's see how we go, but we all know that central midfield is an unresolved issue for Slav and his preferred set up.

[HammerMan2004]

The big problem at the moment is that no formation fits all our best players in their best roles. 4231 is the closest we get, but then we get murdered.

I think we're a pacey centre-back away from that working. But for sure, I've no idea how to line up with our best eleven right now. Lanzini has to play.

[MB]

I think we're a pacey centre-back away from that working. But for sure, I've no idea how to line up with our best eleven right now. Lanzini has to play.

We can debate the first bit till the cows come home (and I think it has been done to death), but agreed Lanzini has to play.

Antonio and Hernandez too. If you then want another attacker in there (I'd say we are crying out for Annie's creativity) you have to push Antonio to wingback or go four at the back.

What a mess!

[hammer1975]

I think that Noble would work in a 3-5-2/3-4-3 still - as long as one of the centre backs can step up into midfield at times etc. Bilic playing him in a '2' as part of 4-2-3-1 is where he has been struggling. A lot of comments seem to focus on Noble's strengths and weaknesses but it's really about the team's weaknesses and lack of balance imo

The Arnautovic money could have been a lot better spent on a centre mid and/or left back

[MB]

I think the bigger question is what does Noble bring to the team which means he is worth accommodating? No real attacking threat, half a yard off the game when defending. Yes he is neat and tidy on the ball, but he plays at a tempo two gears below the rest of the team.

[jaybs]

This obsession with speed. Bobby Moore Never had speed, we definitely know Carroll has no speed, at times he seems to think he is a wing man!

Time to move on this Noble debate is getting boring, it is up to the manager at the end of the day, not armchair warriors, everyone has had their say now.

[brooking1966]

This obsession with speed. Bobby Moore Never had speed, we definitely know Carroll has no speed, at times he seems to think he is a wing man! Time to move on this Noble debate is getting boring, it is up to the manager at the end of the day, not armchair warriors, everyone has had their say now.

Times have changed since the sixties when Bobby played. The PL gets quicker every year & is the quickest league in the world. You can't ignore the speed of the PL you have to adapt. Noble doesn't compare ability wise with the likes the slow bygone players of yesteryear like Sir Bob, so i don't get that example pertaining to Noble either.

The Majority of players in the PL starting 11's are foreign yet we still play fast tempo. This has always stumpped me as to why, but I think its the crowd atmosphere pressure/mentality/passion here in the UK.

Conte after a year in the PL was recently quoted as saying power is an attribute necessary for any player in the current PL.

[Colours never run]

You can't just be a good passer in modern football, especially so in the Premier League.

Of course not. But then thats not all that Noble can do. He wins his fair share of tackles, interceptions, keeps possession as well as create chances too. Passing is still a big asset to have in the game and he does it very well and has every pass in his locker.

[Adam 'The Smudge']

I think the bigger question is what does Noble bring to the team which means he is worth accommodating? No real attacking threat, half a yard off the game when defending. Yes he is neat and tidy on the ball, but he plays at a tempo two gears below the rest of the team.

Nothing to add.

[westham,eggyandchips]

Move one of them in beside Carroll and they might offer more if there is a player or preferably two to find them with a pass ?

In reality, when did Noble last create a chance with one of these sorts of passes Pinks?

[szola]

I'm no Pinky. Found these numbers on Squawka.

Last season Noble created 24 chances.
Only three players created more.
Payet - 72 / Lanzini - 56 / Antonio - 31

Considering how deep Noble played that is some feat.
Our wingers and forwards all created fewer chances.
Think about that for a sec.