Mark Noble - West Ham Legend 500 up
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Longaz
Even with Snodgrass and both Lanzini and Nasri back fit again, he's still managed to start. If he doesn't want to start him, he's had opportunities to do so.
It wouldn't surprise me if he starts many more again for the umpteenth season next year too.
Even with Snodgrass and both Lanzini and Nasri back fit again, he's still managed to start. If he doesn't want to start him, he's had opportunities to do so.
It wouldn't surprise me if he starts many more again for the umpteenth season next year too.
Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
I agree with those who say Noble plays best in a midfield three.
I do think in terms of sheer ability, he is one of the candidates for an upgrade, but when he's not on the pitch we lack leadership and heart.
I do think in terms of sheer ability, he is one of the candidates for an upgrade, but when he's not on the pitch we lack leadership and heart.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
I wouldn’t consider none of the mentioned three to be in direct competition with Noble for he’s position though, we struggle with just Noble next to Rice. for all my criticism of Noble, if we take him out and had Lanzini, Snod or Nasri next to Rice we’d be shipping goals like nobody’s business. With Obiang looking out of form, we really don’t have an alternative right now. I’d play Noble in every game for rest of the season but would definitely be looking for a new Midfielder in the summer. I Hope we find someone capable of playing in a 2 alongside Rice, rather than 3 or we will only be able to play 2 of Anderson, Lanzini, Nasri, Yarmolenko. 3 in the middle is probably necessary for certain games and that’s why Noble will still get games, but next year being a year older Noble alone next to Rice can’t even be an option.Colours never run wrote:Longaz
Even with Snodgrass and both Lanzini and Nasri back fit again, he's still managed to start. If he doesn't want to start him, he's had opportunities to do so.
It wouldn't surprise me if he starts many more again for the umpteenth season next year too.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Not sure if I am seeing things differently, but I haven't seen Noble playing alongside Rice since Lanzini has been in the team.
He's either in the advanced central position or weirdly, nearly in an "inside right" area whereas Lanzini is the one that drops deep and starts to dictate the tempo. Only when Lanzini gets subbed does Noble drop back into his more natural position.
In my opinion it's his best position (advanced centrally, not on the right), where there's no real defensive onus and his lack of pace/strength isn't exposed as much.
Inside right and chasing down defenders is a no-no for me though.
He's either in the advanced central position or weirdly, nearly in an "inside right" area whereas Lanzini is the one that drops deep and starts to dictate the tempo. Only when Lanzini gets subbed does Noble drop back into his more natural position.
In my opinion it's his best position (advanced centrally, not on the right), where there's no real defensive onus and his lack of pace/strength isn't exposed as much.
Inside right and chasing down defenders is a no-no for me though.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Absolutely spot on Croydon he has been playing very advanced, often in line with the forward or wingers when pressing.
Im not quite sure where the idea of Noble being a defensive player has come from. Apart from putting in the odd tackle he is quite ineffective off the ball, and is usually 5 yards behind his man as he doesn't have the pace to keep up, hence why he is best in a midfield 3.
Nasri coming in, in my opinion would not see us concede a tonne more goals, it could even have us concede less as we will dominate the ball more and be less wasteful in possession. Nasri has played deep many times in his career, at Arsenal and Man City.
Im not quite sure where the idea of Noble being a defensive player has come from. Apart from putting in the odd tackle he is quite ineffective off the ball, and is usually 5 yards behind his man as he doesn't have the pace to keep up, hence why he is best in a midfield 3.
Nasri coming in, in my opinion would not see us concede a tonne more goals, it could even have us concede less as we will dominate the ball more and be less wasteful in possession. Nasri has played deep many times in his career, at Arsenal and Man City.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Snodgrass has played in the same part of the pitch as Noble for much of the season. Nasri also has previous for playing centrally, especially among a midfield three. Lanzini is another whose able to play there turning defence into attack. Then of course there's Obiang when in or out of form since he's been here. Wilshere didn't replace him at the start of the season, he partnered him. Yet no matter which selections are or not made, it's Noble that's the ever present in the middle.Longaz wrote:
I wouldn’t consider none of the mentioned three to be in direct competition with Noble for he’s position though, we struggle with just Noble next to Rice. for all my criticism of Noble, if we take him out and had Lanzini, Snod or Nasri next to Rice we’d be shipping goals like nobody’s business. With Obiang looking out of form, we really don’t have an alternative right now. I’d play Noble in every game for rest of the season but would definitely be looking for a new Midfielder in the summer. I Hope we find someone capable of playing in a 2 alongside Rice, rather than 3 or we will only be able to play 2 of Anderson, Lanzini, Nasri, Yarmolenko. 3 in the middle is probably necessary for certain games and that’s why Noble will still get games, but next year being a year older Noble alone next to Rice can’t even be an option.
I have never had an issue with Noble being replaced with a much better option but we've been here time and time before where he keeps being relied upon throughout his career in the middle.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
We should be aiming to improve upon Noble/Snodgrass next season. Neither would start for any other team in the top 10.
- sutts07
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Noble started the game very brightly against Huddersfield. Constantly getting on the ball, pushing us forward and played some lovely balls into the channels to set up attacks. Took his pen well and in general was making us tick.
How on earth people are claiming Huddersfield 'outplayed us in midfield for most of the match' is beyond me. They had 35% possession, they sat deep, let us have it and then played on the counter attack getting it up to Grant as quickly as they could. They pretty much bypasses the middle of the park. It was effective but they hardly dominated or outplayed us. Their midfield three of Mooy, Bacuna and Pritchard won the grand total of 5 tackles between them all game.
They scored from a corner and a free kick in the first half and then an absolute worldy in the second half (after Noble had gone off).
Rice is our defensive midfield player, blame him and the back four for the goals we shipped. Noble is in the middle to create and make things happen and he did that quite well, as did Nasri when he came on. The constant need to dig Noble out week in week out on here and find fault in anything he does is tiresome.
Rice Noble and Nasri looks to be our best midfield three to me. We just need to get Lanzini, Anderson and Arnautovic interchanging and running the channels in front of them.
If everyone in our squad was fully fit and we had a cup final tomorrow, I have no doubt that Pellegrini would start Noble and give him the armband. That is enough for me.
How on earth people are claiming Huddersfield 'outplayed us in midfield for most of the match' is beyond me. They had 35% possession, they sat deep, let us have it and then played on the counter attack getting it up to Grant as quickly as they could. They pretty much bypasses the middle of the park. It was effective but they hardly dominated or outplayed us. Their midfield three of Mooy, Bacuna and Pritchard won the grand total of 5 tackles between them all game.
They scored from a corner and a free kick in the first half and then an absolute worldy in the second half (after Noble had gone off).
Rice is our defensive midfield player, blame him and the back four for the goals we shipped. Noble is in the middle to create and make things happen and he did that quite well, as did Nasri when he came on. The constant need to dig Noble out week in week out on here and find fault in anything he does is tiresome.
Rice Noble and Nasri looks to be our best midfield three to me. We just need to get Lanzini, Anderson and Arnautovic interchanging and running the channels in front of them.
If everyone in our squad was fully fit and we had a cup final tomorrow, I have no doubt that Pellegrini would start Noble and give him the armband. That is enough for me.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
I would play Rice and then two out of Noble, Obiang and snodgrass in a midfield three for most of the remaining games, esp away from home.
If Pelligrini wants to play Lanzini in that midfield three then I think Obiang should play alongside Rice
This is no criticism of Noble as a player I just don't think a midfield of Rice and Noble and Lanzini can compete physically in the premier league
If Pelligrini wants to play Lanzini in that midfield three then I think Obiang should play alongside Rice
This is no criticism of Noble as a player I just don't think a midfield of Rice and Noble and Lanzini can compete physically in the premier league
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Fully agree that we need a more out and out midfield player in the middle than Lanzini, especially away from home. I have been saying it season after season, we cannot play two in the middle as we are just not strong enough. That is not a dig at our players as there are not many teams who play two in the middle week in week out to be fair.
I don't think dropping Noble for a massively out of form Obiang is the answer. Obiang in there for Lanzini I would understand, but if you just swap Obiang and Noble, you don't really solve the problem.
Against anyone in the top half, and pretty much everyone away from home, we need to play three CM's that all compliment each other. Rice and Noble are the obvious picks, then it is one other from Nasri, Wilshere, Sanchez, or Obiang for me. Snodgrass has done a job in there for us but like Lanzini, he is just not a CM.
I don't think dropping Noble for a massively out of form Obiang is the answer. Obiang in there for Lanzini I would understand, but if you just swap Obiang and Noble, you don't really solve the problem.
Against anyone in the top half, and pretty much everyone away from home, we need to play three CM's that all compliment each other. Rice and Noble are the obvious picks, then it is one other from Nasri, Wilshere, Sanchez, or Obiang for me. Snodgrass has done a job in there for us but like Lanzini, he is just not a CM.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Is Obiang 'massively out of form' though?sutts07 wrote:
I don't think dropping Noble for a massively out of form Obiang is the answer. Obiang in there for Lanzini I would understand, but if you just swap Obiang and Noble, you don't really solve the problem.
He didn't play well against Wimbledon, that is for sure, but he has hardly started any games since the very good performance he put in away at Southampton
He played well away to Man City IMHO, and can remember him coming on and shoring things up against Liverpool and Arsenal
Bit of a stretch to say is out of form!
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
The thing that annoys me is how people often forget that, to be fair to Snodgrass, he is head and shoulders our top assister this season. We look far more dangerous when he takes set pieces. I'm not sure we would even be in the top 10 this season without his contribution. Both players will inevitably feature less as the seasons go on due to their age, but they are still both important for our team.Longaz wrote:We should be aiming to improve upon Noble/Snodgrass next season. Neither would start for any other team in the top 10.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Does Obiang compete more "physically" than Mark? Not sure on that.
And, again, things show at the moment that Lanzini is playing as part of the midfield three with Noble and Rice. Anyone wanting Manu to play out wide is really, really negating his skillset.
Weird focus on midfield after the last two games, where the midfield definitely wasn't the issue. The centre of defence has been horrid recently, mainly Diop.
And, again, things show at the moment that Lanzini is playing as part of the midfield three with Noble and Rice. Anyone wanting Manu to play out wide is really, really negating his skillset.
Weird focus on midfield after the last two games, where the midfield definitely wasn't the issue. The centre of defence has been horrid recently, mainly Diop.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
I would say that Obiang does compete more 'physically' than Noble. Not a lot but a bit more.Wilko1304 wrote:Does Obiang compete more "physically" than Mark? Not sure on that.
And, again, things show at the moment that Lanzini is playing as part of the midfield three with Noble and Rice. Anyone wanting Manu to play out wide is really, really negating his skillset.
Weird focus on midfield after the last two games, where the midfield definitely wasn't the issue. The centre of defence has been horrid recently, mainly Diop.
Also, he is quicker and more athletic so if playing in a midfield three with Rice and Lanzini he would be able to get back and support Rice more effectively when our attacking moves break down.
Of course, Obiang does not have the ball retention and ability of Noble, but if we are playing Lanzini in the centre midfield then that Noble's skill-set is less required.
I want Noble in the team, I just don't think it is a very good idea to have him in a midfield two, or a midfield three with Lanzini as one of them
Nearly all the better teams have more of a solid, physical presence in CM than that
Liverpool have two of Wijnaldum, henderson or Fabinho
Man U have Pogba and Matic
Spurs have Sissoko and Winks [or sometimes Dier]
Chelsea have Jorghino and Kante
Watford have Docoure and Capoue
Everton have Gueye and Schneiderlin
Leicester have Ndidi and Tielemans
Wolves have a fairly lightweight midfield but play a back 5 to compensate
Man City are the only team that go with just the one physical midfield player [most weeks] but they are so hardworking across the rest of the team it seems to work [and Fernandinho is such a good player]
What we desperately need is a Sissoko/ Doucoure type of player to play alongside Rice. Noble could then still play a role as part of a midfield three
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
The point in bold is the most valid; he has been excellent this season, with rarely a dip in form (in terms of dangerous/creative passing).Hammer_Time1 wrote:
The thing that annoys me is how people often forget that, to be fair to Snodgrass, he is head and shoulders our top assister this season. We look far more dangerous when he takes set pieces. I'm not sure we would even be in the top 10 this season without his contribution. Both players will inevitably feature less as the seasons go on due to their age, but they are still both important for our team.
Noble, too, interestingly, has been in as good as form as ever, even if the dips have perhaps been more pronounced.
The thing, though, must be the clock that is ticking. As a team, we cannot have two 32 year olds on the pitch, in the middle, together. Younger, faster teams will just play around them too easily.
I think we have to make a hard choice and retain one, whilst updating on the other. My hunch is that Snodgrass would be much more likely to attract some interest from either a decent bet for promotion next season, or from one of the teams that come up. Leeds or Norwich would improve, with him in their squads.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
100%kentishiron wrote: Im not quite sure where the idea of Noble being a defensive player has come from. Apart from putting in the odd tackle he is quite ineffective off the ball, and is usually 5 yards behind his man as he doesn't have the pace to keep up, hence why he is best in a midfield 3.
Nasri coming in, in my opinion would not see us concede a tonne more goals, it could even have us concede less as we will dominate the ball more and be less wasteful in possession. Nasri has played deep many times in his career, at Arsenal and Man City.
I'd also add Snodgrass offers more combative strength/assists/set pieces/goals than Noble. Obiang more strength & pace, very disciplined in his role, his passing is under-estimated whereas Noble's is overestimated imo.
We have enough great 'luxury' midfield players; Nasri, Lanzini, & Anderson being WC in terms of skilful abilities. I'd like to see Zabaleta next to Rice with his experience holding enabling Rice to develop his game going forward. Rice needs more physical support next to him & Zaba fits the bill, than Noble who is actually hindering him imho. This is PL 2019, we need a lot more presence/Leadership in CM than MN as Capt. offers.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
I wonder why such an experienced manager as Pellegrini (who has worked with Zaba for many years now, sees him every day in training) hasn't thought of playing an experienced right back, who he has always played at right back, in the centre of midfield, that's so strange isn't it.brooking1966 wrote:
I'd like to see Zabaleta next to Rice with his experience holding enabling Rice to develop his game going forward. Rice needs more physical support next to him & Zaba fits the bill, than Noble who is actually hindering him imho. This is PL 2019, we need a lot more presence/Leadership in CM than MN as Capt. offers.
Maybe you should write him a letter and inform him of your great idea, I'm sure he will be utterly embarrassed to have not done it sooner.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
By playing Zabaleta there at least it won’t hinder Rice’s development. Having Noble there as his captain has meant that Declan has been going nowhere. It’s a shame watching a talented youngster come through the ranks without any mentoring. When on earth will he ever get a call up for example?
Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend
Doc H Ball wrote:By playing Zabaleta there at least it won’t hinder Rice’s development. Having Noble there as his captain has meant that Declan has been going nowhere. It’s a shame watching a talented youngster come through the ranks without any mentoring. When on earth will he ever get a call up for example?