Reece Oxford

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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Gsbgsb on Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:55 pm

Neither Hines or Sears were good enough for the premiership. 20 years ago maybe squad players, 35 years ago they would have been first team regulars, that is how the quality required to play top league football in this country has moved on in large part due to the removal of restrictions on foreign players. The talent pool is so much larger especially when you have the money which the English clubs have.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby The Gibbins on Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:18 pm

I am a firm believer that if introduced, young players are more likely to make it. I think the loan system just doesn't work nowadays and if anything it holds players back. Reece Oxford played well against Arsenal and then got taught a lesson in the next fixture against Leicester, but that should have been a good thing for his progression. Instead he was brought off at half time, hardly featured since and had loan moves . He has gone on loan to a good club as well who obviously see something in him, which leads me to ask why he wasn't kept here? He wouldn't do any worse than our defenders currently and in my opinion is a better ball player and more comfortable in midfield than Declan Rice.


Reece Burke looked accomplished in the few games he played for us in the Premier League and since then hasn't featured. Another player who could be getting game time now but is instead at Bolton getting tonked every week and playing alongside David ****ing Wheater for an education in football.....

Josh Cullen looks a real prospect and actually benefiting from the loan system. He looks a real good player and again we ship him off to Bolton and play a young centre back in midifeld instead. Declan Rice has impressed but he is not a midfielder and it doesn't make sense having Cullen on loan who looks a much better player in that area.

I look at Everton last season bringing in so many young players and giving them a platform. Some of these kids could easily have had the same fate as the likes of Hines and other players who didnt get much of a chance at the top and fell by the wayside. If you don't get a chance to learn the game at Premier League level im not quite sure how they will ever reach it? It's all about adapting but players can grow and play at this level if they are eased in and West Ham have not done that properly for years..

Oxford, Cullen and Burke could easily have had adequate game time by now in my opinion. I don't see how they will ever make it without a chance to prove themselves. I understand the pressures but 20 minutes here, 20 minutes there in certain games and ease them in. I dont look at these players and think they aren't ready, but they need experience and haven't had fair crack at it.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby fmgod on Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:21 pm

Everton have bought all them kids in bar Davies though, they have all proven themselves in the lower leagues and played a decent amount of games, Cullen and Burke aren't proven above League One, there is a world of difference. If our kids were good enough they would play there is no agenda, it's they aren't good enough.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby The Gibbins on Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:27 pm

I dont think its about agenda, for me personally its fear. Burke looked good in the handful of games he played at this level but what good is playing for Bolton going to do him? When a young player is on the edge of making it they need game time and to learn the game at this level. Any young player needs a chance.

You say Everton have young players proven at a lower level but some of ours haven't done too bad either. Without getting a chance no player has any hope, i am not saying start them but they can be used. Our team is not exactly performing so there should be some sort of a platform for them. It doesn't send a message when we can play so badly and no one gets near the team still. I don't buy it that any one of Oxford, Burke or Cullen aren't good enough to get a chance.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Rocket on Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:35 pm

The Gibbins wrote:I dont think its about agenda, for me personally its fear.

Definitely. The stakes are far too high and there is so much to lose if relegated from the Premier League - something that we are at much more risk of than Everton, hence they are willing to take more gambles with young players than we are.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby simon1982 on Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Nothing to do with fear, the players in question aren't good enough...yet.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby GreenfordHammer89 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:41 am

Hines has been doing a really good job for Maidstone United and put a great shift in this weekend. Probably would be snapped up by at least a league 2 club soon.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Chicken Run Supreme on Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:53 am

^^^ Had no idea that Hines was now plying his trade with Maidstone United :o
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Ben on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:02 am

I'm with gibbins
If a young player comes in and does well they should be rewarded and get more playing time then not shipped off on loan once they make a mistake or two.
Obviously for some the loan system works but others would be better staying
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Hamburger on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:28 am

Ben wrote:I'm with gibbins
If a young player comes in and does well they should be rewarded and get more playing time then not shipped off on loan once they make a mistake or two.
Obviously for some the loan system works but others would be better staying


Yep I'm with Gibbins too. Crap coaching + crap team mates does not help you shine in the lower leagues, I know from first hand experience. Some may stand out individually but others just get lost but may be better with a decent team. Coaching is generally absolutely appalling and half the problem with the English game.

I've got a daft comparison. A lad I played darts with was a good pub player but put him on a stage he was tremendous, a magnitude better. Some people, not many I'd guess, just thrive on the big stage and pressure. Look at Rashford, absolutely stunned everyone including his coaches when he got a chance.

Not saying our lads are all great but how do you know if they never get a chance to play with top players? Training ground is not the same. The argument that if they can't cut it in lower leaugues, they can't cut it in the PL is flawed, not wrong but flawed.

Why do disproportionally so many good players come from Holland, Scandinavia and Belgium? Because they are playing first team football at 18 or 19. It's not rocket science.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby ThreeSixes on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:50 am

Hamburger wrote:Why do disproportionally so many good players come from Holland, Scandinavia and Belgium? Because they are playing first team football at 18 or 19. It's not rocket science.
.


:eh:

Players in countries that have weaker leagues have more chance playing first team football than players from countries with better leagues. I imagine countries with disproportionally bad players (Hungary, Bulgaria, Ireland etc) would also have more 18 and 19 year olds playing in their top leagues then we do?
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby GreenfordHammer89 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:18 am

Chicken Run Supreme wrote:^^^ Had no idea that Hines was now plying his trade with Maidstone United :o


Hes been with the club about a month now. Looks a real handful at this level at least, constant attacking threat and is a nightmare for defenders. He was with Southend last season but only played a handful of games before being released. Maidstone last season had Mavilla on the books however he was let go, heading to Wealdstone. Last I heard for him he was having trials at Orient but don't think it amounted to anything.

I go to Maidstone home and away almost every week and football at this level is far more enjoyable.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby The Gibbins on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:28 am

But its the same in Italy, Spain and Germany as well, they bring their players through.

Our young players will always just have "potential" and always be on the cusp. You will never be a Premier League standard player going on loan and until these players are given a chance to play at this level they can never be considered Premier League level. Everyone starts out somewhere and you can adapt at this level playing with and against better players. You will not grow playing in lower standards or hanging around the U21's and youth Development teams until the age of 22/23. These young players are spending far too much of their education playing the same young kids in their youth leagues, where is the progression?

I don't really understand being nearly good enough, surely if you are nearly good enough you get a run of games so that you become good enough? The point I'm trying to make is how can you be Premier League standard without ever learning the game at that level?
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby YorksHammer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:46 am

Not sure if anyone cares, but I think he played the full 90 at CB in a friendly against VVV Venlo yesterday.

https://www.borussia.de/english/team/ne ... ?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=27971&cHash=20b178578937f2ccff5756823ab741ba

The folk on the Gladbach forum seem to want to see him turning out for the first team:

http://forum.borussia.de/viewtopic.php? ... &start=160

'It is a mystery to me why he does not play. What the others behind it currently show, he can certainly do.'

'Too bad that yesterday he was not replaced. (NB I think this means too bad he was not a replacement, so either subbed on or played instead of someone else)

He could have helped us with his head strength, also in the DM.'
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Jumby on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:39 pm

I'd rather he not be playing in the Bundesliga than not be playing in the Championship but I hope he gets some game time soon, if not we'd probably have to re-evaluate this at Xmas.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby bubbles500 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:05 pm

Unless they have a disaster run conceding loads of goals,injuries,or go 3 at back he just won't play.They have 2 established CB and no reason to break that partnership.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby YorksHammer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Jumby wrote:I'd rather he not be playing in the Bundesliga than not be playing in the Championship but I hope he gets some game time soon, if not we'd probably have to re-evaluate this at Xmas.


Do we know if we have a recall clause?

Personally I think it might just do him the world of good being in a different environment, learning a different game/league, as has been mentioned on here. Given regular 'B' team run outs, even if they are 'only' friendly matches, adds to his experience and gets him to apply the coaching he is having. Seems he trains with the first team regularly based on the Gladbach Instagram.

I do want to see him get some game time, and I'm sure he'll get appearances off the bench at some point.

Worth noting that Gladbach sold Kolodziejczak, who was possibly his direct competition as back up for CB, so Oxford is possibly considered as 'first reserve' CB now (especially as Doucoure is injured or just coming back from one, and similarly young). Elvedi can play across the back four but has been used as a right back this season, Wendt is a left back, and Jantschke is a right back primarily. So there's plenty of opportunity should they need to change what appears to be their first choice two (Ginter and Vestergaard). Also notable that they don't have much DM cover right now, with Strobl out injured until February and Benes having just fractured his foot (in the same game that Oxford played) so there's possible opportunities at DM.

The Bundesliga season is only three games old - too early to tell whether he will or won't get a run in the side right now.
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby LeonRivers on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:17 pm

Chicken Run Supreme wrote:^^^ Had no idea that Hines was now plying his trade with Maidstone United :o

There are a lot of ex-academy youngsters down at that level now.

Check out this quiz what I made. Name the youngsters to have played for the first team in the Premier League era: https://www.sporcle.com/games/leonardor ... -graduates"
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby Hatcham Iron on Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:23 am

For young players to learn the trade they must play competitive games, makes me wonder if hes going to make the step up.ive always believed if you're good enough you'r old enough. Reece must wonder what the F is going on and where his career is heading. :crest:
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Re: Reece Oxford

Postby leeo272 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:01 pm

I've said this before but he wasn't getting into Reading's team last season. Rather than deconstructing different countries' attitudes to young players all over Europe maybe ask yourself if it's the individual that's the problem.
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