And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby bbhammer on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:00 pm

Loads of posts here about last year about injuries etc but surely most must have seen loads of awful tactical decisions,player selections,substitutions etc with what he has had available ?
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Absolutely Hammered! on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:35 pm

bbhammer wrote:Loads of posts here about last year about injuries etc but surely most must have seen loads of awful tactical decisions,player selections,substitutions etc with what he has had available ?


To be fair the players he had available on the bench last season we're better than this season.
My biggest criticism of Slav and the coaching staff is the inability to defend. Whenever we concede a corner you now fear the worst but the overall defending in general is beyond poor.

I think a major sticking could occur if the board sit down with slav and discuss new fitness and defensive coaches. Slav might turn around and say "sorry...me and my boys come as a package" and if so will we see a shake of hands me thinks.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby James P on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:48 pm

Absolutely Hammered! wrote:To be fair the players he had available on the bench last season we're better than this season.


But we spent all last summer buying substitutes!

My bottom line on Slav is that I think he does have a number of deficiencies and a lot of things that fall squarely at his door have not been done well, not just this year but throughout his entire tenure. I am also disappointed that he seems to be happy to toe the line from the boardroom and isn't being stronger and more forthright in his demands on team matters.

Having said that, I don't believe any manager can work to the best of their ability in this barmy, madcap set up we have at this circus of a football club. I see absolutely no sense in replacing him as any successor will be hamstrung in exactly the same way. I'm happy for him to stay in the role and we'll just have to accept we're not gonna progress anywhere under anyone whilst the clowns upstairs are running the show.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby OnePaulHilton on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:50 pm

bbhammer wrote:Loads of posts here about last year about injuries etc but surely most must have seen loads of awful tactical decisions,player selections,substitutions etc with what he has had available ?


Not most no. Your opinion. Some of us don't agree with selections etc but realise we don't know the whole story so cut him some slack. The Payet, Ogbonna and Arbeloa and possibly Adrian situations should have taught you that much. That's without knowing about the niggling injuries or illness players always have that may influence a decision
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Full Fonte on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:54 pm

I think slav will definitely be here next season. there is no way the daves will pay out his contract and end it early, case closed imo.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Jumby on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 pm

I like him as a bloke, he's funny and I hope he turns this around. If he was sacked tomorrow I don't know if I'd be at all that bothered anymore, I'm sure there's plenty of managers that could get the same results, or better, with what Slav has had to work and deal with.

I'd rather he stay and, providing he properly learns from this, pushes us on next season. I can't see it myself, I think we'll make an absolute pigs ear of our last five games and one way or another he'll be gone.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Diogenes on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:26 pm

You see, what I would question is how real is this ‘board’ interference and if it is real how insufferable (and or different from other clubs) is it?

I keep seeing the defence of Bilic and/or our unlikelihood of us progressing under anyone due to the board lack of support and interference. However, other than opinion, rumour and suspect ITK comments I can see very little evidence that this is 100% true or not manageable or greatly different from most clubs.
Now I am only talking about ‘Team’ elements here, not the stadium or media etc.etc. with relation to the competence of the board.

I see people ask why Bilic doesn’t grow a backbone and regale against the interference. Well it may because there is little to complain about. I haven’t heard SA say that his time was intolerable, or Zola or Grant for that matter. Did the Birmingham Managers (I have no idea but I am sure someone will trawl through and may find something).

Over the past five years West Ham have certainly invested a large amount in player recruitment, so it’s not through ‘lack of investment’. Investing in the right personnel? Well that would be difficult to defend, however we have also had many successes and is our record worse than all of the other clubs? People criticise ‘loans’, however all clubs do this and to be fair I am pleased Sullivan does on many occasion because we would have a lot more dead wood than we do now.

Now I suspect the above will not meet with everyone’s support, which is fine it’s an opinion after all, but I am just trying to add a bit of reasonable doubt into the debate or middle ground if you will rather than the usual polarising positions.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Jumby on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:39 pm

Diogenes wrote:Over the past five years West Ham have certainly invested a large amount in player recruitment, so it’s not through ‘lack of investment’. Investing in the right personnel? Well that would be difficult to defend, however we have also had many successes and is our record worse than all of the other clubs? People criticise ‘loans’, however all clubs do this and to be fair I am pleased Sullivan does on many occasion because we would have a lot more dead wood than we do now.


I don't think we have, we've spent less than 40m on strikers in the last 5 years, a small fee for a goalkeeper (Henderson), under 30m on the defence, just over 60m on midfield and loads of stupid and ultimately pointless youth players from other clubs for small fees. We've got over 40m back in transfer fees in that time and no end of money from elsewhere, plus we've sold our stadium. We've spent f**k all compared to many of the other sides around us and, as you point out, we've not spent it wisely.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Ozza on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:43 pm

Diogenes wrote:You see, what I would question is how real is this ‘board’ interference and if it is real how insufferable (and or different from other clubs) is it?

I keep seeing the defence of Bilic and/or our unlikelihood of us progressing under anyone due to the board lack of support and interference. However, other than opinion, rumour and suspect ITK comments I can see very little evidence that this is 100% true or not manageable or greatly different from most clubs.
Now I am only talking about ‘Team’ elements here, not the stadium or media etc.etc. with relation to the competence of the board.

I see people ask why Bilic doesn’t grow a backbone and regale against the interference. Well it may because there is little to complain about. I haven’t heard SA say that his time was intolerable, or Zola or Grant for that matter. Did the Birmingham Managers (I have no idea but I am sure someone will trawl through and may find something).

Over the past five years West Ham have certainly invested a large amount in player recruitment, so it’s not through ‘lack of investment’. Investing in the right personnel? Well that would be difficult to defend, however we have also had many successes and is our record worse than all of the other clubs? People criticise ‘loans’, however all clubs do this and to be fair I am pleased Sullivan does on many occasion because we would have a lot more dead wood than we do now.

Now I suspect the above will not meet with everyone’s support, which is fine it’s an opinion after all, but I am just trying to add a bit of reasonable doubt into the debate or middle ground if you will rather than the usual polarising positions.


You could flip that totally the other way as well.

Doubt you'll see much bitching from any ex manager (or at any other team either), part of the severance is contract to keep their gobs shut, standard practice. Only lasts for a certain amount of time which is why you see things coming up in peoples biographies.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Ozza on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:45 pm

The Full Fonte wrote:I think slav will definitely be here next season. there is no way the daves will pay out his contract and end it early, case closed imo.


I think there will be a "agreement" dressed up around his operation and rehabilitation
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby James P on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:59 pm

If Bilic is in total control of player recruitment then he should never work in football management again.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Jumby on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:01 pm

James P wrote:If Bilic is in total control of player recruitment then he should never work in football management again.


He shouldn't be allowed to buy anything again :lol:
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Upton Carp on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Major wrote:Its refreshing to know that even if you don't visit this site for months, the same people (Puff et al) are still trying to out the latest manager.

Hahahaha

brilliant.

I haven't had a glance at the transfer thread yet, but i will bet the same culprits are all over that playing football manager, with the millions of pounds they haven't got!


Not been a member as long as yourself, nor have I made as many posts, but I do agree with everything you have posted...and will add this: Why do so many posters feel the need to write an essay? Don't they know the meaning of TL;DR?
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Beavis Danzig on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:13 pm

if you look back, the most prolific posters in here are the ones who wanted him out at the first sniff of trouble. they made their minds up a long time ago and it does their nut that people don't agree with them, so they take to making rapid fire posts in this thread as they've confused the veracity of their opinion with the value of it.

if there was a feature where you only were allowed a rationed number of posts in a thread, you'd get a much better idea of the support.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Absolutely Hammered! on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:18 pm

People saying Slav should steer clear of recruitment forget that he personally brought in the 2 best West Ham players I've seen for many years in Lanzini and Payet (in the same window). Granted Tore didn't work out but there were many of us who liked the look of him before he came. Regarding Feghouli, I still think he has something to offer us, even if its from the bench next season.

I just think its luck of the draw whether players adapt to the PL. Look at Pogba... he still hasn't adapted and he's played here before.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Diogenes on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Jumby - I was basing my opinion on the following information reference Total, Net and Average spend which appears to support my view of 'Investment'. The overall 'quality' of our buys is often questionable but I am sure many of the teams around us have spent similar on 'disappointments'.

Net Spend Last 5 Years Purchase Spend Sold Net Per Season

1 Manchester City £565,650,000 £163,100,000 £402,550,000 £80,510,000
2 Manchester United £528,800,000 £176,650,000 £352,150,000 £70,430,000
4 Arsenal £298,340,000 £92,450,000 £205,890,000 £41,178,000
3 Chelsea £507,459,000 £320,650,000 £186,809,000 £37,361,800
5 Liverpool £365,600,000 £244,080,000 £121,520,000 £24,304,000
6 West Ham £169,500,000 £51,000,000 £118,500,000 £23,700,000
7 Sunderland £131,980,000 £51,050,000 £80,930,000 £16,186,000
8 Crystal Palace £149,535,000 £68,900,000 £80,635,000 £16,127,000
9 Leicester £129,700,000 £55,050,000 £74,650,000 £14,930,000
14 Stoke City £98,300,000 £24,000,000 £74,300,000 £14,860,000
10 Everton £191,300,000 £123,816,000 £67,484,000 £13,496,800
11 West Bromwich Albion £99,350,000 £42,209,000 £57,141,000 £11,428,200
15 AFC Bournemouth £76,850,000 £24,780,000 £52,070,000 £10,414,000
12 Watford £90,700,000 £48,800,000 £41,900,000 £8,380,000
15 Middlesbrough £59,225,000 £18,675,000 £40,550,000 £8,110,000
16 Southampton £235,100,000 £195,850,000 £39,250,000 £7,850,000
17 Burnley £53,200,000 £23,450,000 £29,750,000 £5,950,000
18 Hull City £92,625,000 £65,900,000 £26,725,000 £5,345,000
19 Tottenham £315,450,000 £314,450,000 £1,000,000 £200,000
20 Swansea £122,375,000 £124,560,000 -£2,185,000 -£437,000
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Ozza on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:41 pm

I've never understood the point of "net" spend.

surely wages is a better indicator?
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Metal Hammer on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:29 pm

Ozza wrote:I've never understood the point of "net" spend.

surely wages is a better indicator?



Likewise I'm more interested in gross spend as the fact no one wants to buy our rubbish or that we sell our only desirable assets cheaply distorts the figures.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Fishdo on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:37 pm

Net spend means very little to clubs around our size and has many factors that influence it... you can't hold it up as a comparison to other clubs without also stating other measureable factors...

Cash flow in terms of wages and transfer fees on a monthly or yearly basis are much more telling in simple terms...

I want Slav to stay... for me he earnt that from our trips to Merseyside last season alone !!! After 30 odd years of having to face that trip back!!

However if the board do want him out and aren't prepared to buy his contract out (assuming they need too) then I could see them using a change in coaching staff (or something similar) as a means of forcing Slav to step down.....

Re post above anyone know what TL:DR means?
Last edited by Fishdo on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby thejackhammer on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:39 pm

Too long; didn't read.
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