And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: bristolhammerfc, sicknote, -DL-, Rio, Gnome, chalks, the pink palermo

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby somerset-hammer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:50 am

Burnley Hammer wrote:The question does still need to be asked....
.
If Monday was an example of the players pulling together and playing for their manager, why do they only do that every now and again. Why not every match? Why do they have to wait until their manager is about to be sacked before playing with intensity and a bit of passion?


The only thing I can think of is complacency, and lack of motivation.

I get the impression, that most, if not all the players really like Slav, if he is mates with his players, they probably think they can get away with doing less, however as you say when their mate is on the brink of losing his job they pull together for him.

It's hard to figure out really, how we can play at such high intensity for nearly 90mins in one game, yet looked knackered after 20mins in most other games.
User avatar
somerset-hammer
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:05 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby davids cross on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 am

Burnley Hammer wrote:.If Monday was an example of the players pulling together and playing for their manager, why do they only do that every now and again. Why not every match?


Yep,

You can't go on having must win games. And we've had quite a few of those last season and already this season. Matches where the managers job security is thought vulnerable.

At some point we have to build a block of results. And not ending up losing to West Brom and Spurs ......and then being in another must win game v Swansea.

It's got to start here really.
User avatar
davids cross
 
Posts: 23855
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:20 pm
Location: Crawley, West Sussex.

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:56 am

I don't think the main issue has been the players not playing for the manager for the most part or pulling together. Other than Payet and Sakho (who's just mainly been injured anyway), I'm struggling to think of many others not trying their best.

There's a multitude of other reasons though as to why we've been dogshit and it comes down to tactics, getting to grips with the new stadium, injuries to key players, 4 away games on the bounce. I expect the tide to turn eventually and once it does, everything will seem a lot rosier and a lot of the initial worries will be mostly forgotten and concentrating more on looking up than down.
User avatar
Colours never run
 
Posts: 8180
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby hammerman11 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:11 am

next few games we will see how the new intensity west ham do

wba - a point would be good against an awkward opponent who will test us more than huddersfield.
bolton - reserve side but we need to win to build the feel good factor
spurs - win this and we have lift off I feel.
swansea - need to win this .

after that lot we could be well into the top half and in the next round of the cup. There will certainly be a bounce about the place if we remain unbeaten in september.

October brings 3 games an in form hammers should win burnley, brighton and palace.

so things could be very different in the next 6 league games time !

COYI
hammerman11
 
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:01 pm

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Harry Hound on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:14 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Whatever the shortcomings are , it isn't Man Management , the players to a man played out of their skins for our Manager last night - there would be no harm in looking for better Defensive Coaches , anything that improves all round performance .


A lot has changed in the last 2 weeks Slav honestly appears to be learning all the time 2 weeks ago he seemed to be bereft of ideas and confidence and the team seemed to have lost all direction and to be melting down like Villa did a couple of seasons ago under Remi Garde. Whilst of course one result and performance doesn't mean a lot in isolation, it was a pivotal game and he came through far better than last season against Burnley and Hull. When Slav first arrived he appears to have had ideas about how he wanted to play and who he wanted to sign and his relationship with the board was very obeisant and respectful. It looks now like he's at last taking a more realistic and pragmatic approach to team selection and tactics and is also in a stronger position with the board and has made it clear (eventually) that he's not their lackey. The same was true with Sam he started playing a certain way and was also moving forward, had sussed the board out completely and I'm sure he would have pushed on and achieved things with us. All this Sullivan BS that Sam had taken us as far as he could go should now be seen for the BS it was. Bilic is still learning, the players are getting fitter as the season progresses, if he can show improvement get's back to basics and can manage his relationship with the board, we can't ask for more. The board aren't going anywhere soon and so if we've got a manager who's sussed them out, can keep them honest and get "acceptable" results on the pitch we should be happy with that and after all we really do need to be very " careful what we wish for".
User avatar
Harry Hound
 
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: "just a came from nowhere and going straight back there!"

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Iron-worx on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:20 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote: You are right , there's no denying it , after giving the performance of the season against Tottenham we went and lost 0-4 at Home to Liverpool , then we went up to Burnley and beat them 1-2 - but should we be looking beyond Slaven Bilic for the answer to that one - could it be that the players we have on our books are too old to put in such intensive performances week in week out - Collins , Fonte , Zabaleta , 34, 33 , 32 respectively , Winston Reid is fast approaching 30 and is out injured almost as much as Andy Carroll - we bought a midfielder from Leeds Utd and expect him to be a competent right back in the Premiership , we were forced to play Jonathan Calleri as our main striker - is that the fault of the Manager ?
Would Jose Mourinho fare any better with our group of players , would he have got a result against Tottenham with Calleri leading the line ?

I'm not going to say that Slaven Bilic is some great tactical genius but his record at West Ham is more than good enough so far - I'd like to see our Owners come out and publically back him , give him another year on top of what he has left in order to settle the players down for the season - or sack him and replace him with a decent Manager - if he is replaced I'd bet that the other Manager would not better Bilic's first season finish at West Ham ever . If Bilic is retained I'd be confident of a Top 10 finish .


I don't see it happening to anybody else Skye, only we cant go a couple of months between caneings and I don't buy the argument that our squad is worse than everybody elses.

If things go to form then the next two or three games will be OK then bang it will be a lot of goals conceded defeat again where we look totally clueless and more to the point look like we've surrendered.

What I can't deal with are the roll over and die performances.

I expect to concede a lot of goals maybe twice a season not thirteen times last season and three times already this season, and when we do I expect us to look like we've put in an honest shift.

It's the nature of the big defeats that are the problem, it's OK to lose and it's OK to lose 4-0 once in a while but when you do it's very much not OK to look like you haven't made a hell of a fight of it.

My killer problem though is that I've given up hoping that we've turned that corner and I now fully expect another bigtime surrender to happen before too long.

We would need to go two months without that happening in order to restore my confidence it's not happened so many times.
User avatar
Iron-worx
 
Posts: 5004
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Rebuilding Lady Garrets Tower

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby hammerman11 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:27 am

I agree we need to go on a long unbeaten run starting now.
the next 6 games gives us that chance. will we take it I hope so.

next season we will need to replace older players such as fonte,collins,noble with younger ones. This I have no doubt will happen.

I cant see noble getting into the team much apart from cup games and sub appearances but I think he will take that as he loves the club and on a good wage no one else will pay.

collins and fonte will be gone when contracts run out.
reidy has a few more years in him yet.
hammerman11
 
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:01 pm

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby ironilunga on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:02 am

Colours never run wrote:There's a multitude of other reasons though as to why we've been dogshit and it comes down to tactics, getting to grips with the new stadium, injuries to key players, 4 away games on the bounce.


Tactics are a huge problem. I think the other reasons you highlight are excuses that lesser men than Slav would use ( :arry: ) if they could get away with it.

I think Slav could cling on for a while but I think his inability to manage a talented squad like ours will continue to be cruelly exposed. We are almost at full strength and this will test his ability going forward to manage strong personalities that all think they deserve a place in the starting eleven. A red flag will be when Slav attempts to crowbar in all the new signings at the cost of tactical nouse.

For me he has already proved inadequate in being able to get the most out of several new signings. IMO multiple players have been written off by some fans as garbage due to the way they have been deployed.

Slav seems like a very decent bloke but in the best interests of the club I think he will ultimately need to be replaced by a manager equip with better tactical awareness and one that commands respect of top players.
User avatar
ironilunga
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:05 pm

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Diogenes on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:22 am

I tend to agree with most of the posters above. Bilic needs consistency of good performances, even if we do not win them all. To be fair, I thought against Huddersfield I could see a 'Plan' and tactics to achieve that plan. It was more of a Big Sam approach, but nothing wrong with that in the present circumstances and more in keeping of where we are and who we have.
Be interesting to see if he keeps his nerve.
User avatar
Diogenes
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Doc H Ball on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:36 am

Bilic: “Was de Boer’s sacking on my mind? It was, I ain’t going to lie. I’ve been in football since I was 18, so I know. I never said a bad word about the chairman and I never will. Yes I said some things – at the end of the day I’m 49 – I said them, and I wasn’t drunk”.

I reckon the comments about Sulli liking to talk a lot and chucking various players at him went down a storm.

Bit reminiscent of undermining Zola then having the temerity to say he was dismissed for gross misconduct for some innocuous remark about the Chairman.
User avatar
Doc H Ball
 
Posts: 7935
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: in nick

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:53 am

Iron-worx wrote:
I don't see it happening to anybody else Skye, only we cant go a couple of months between caneings and I don't buy the argument that our squad is worse than everybody elses.

If things go to form then the next two or three games will be OK then bang it will be a lot of goals conceded defeat again where we look totally clueless and more to the point look like we've surrendered.

What I can't deal with are the roll over and die performances.

I expect to concede a lot of goals maybe twice a season not thirteen times last season and three times already this season, and when we do I expect us to look like we've put in an honest shift.



My killer problem though is that I've given up hoping that we've turned that corner and I now fully expect another bigtime surrender to happen before too long.

We would need to go two months without that happening in order to restore my confidence it's not happened so many times.


You like myself and others will remember our first few games during Bilic's reign - Arsenal and Manchester City away will live long in my memory , the way we defended to a man , it was heroic , wouldn't you agree ?
Then we went to Anfield , kept a clean sheet and scored 3 . All good so far you'll agree ?

So what happened ?

We'd just had 4 years of Sam Allardyce's brand of safety-first football - I'd be willing to bet there was pressure from above [ and the fans ] to play a more expansive type of football , Roman Abramovich demanded it at Chelsea after the Mourinho years - post Avram Grant he employed Scolari , that didn't work out , then came Hiddink , Ancelotti , Villas-Boas , Matteo , Benitez , Mourinho [ again ] , Holland , Hiddink [ again ] and even now with Antonio Conte in charge they don't seem to be 100% happy .

Don't underestimate pressure from above from interferring Chairmen - I realise it's been going on for years , but in our case David Sullivan doesn't scour the earth for the very best young talent , he googles Free Transfers , players nearing the end of their contracts and plays the loan system .
That is why I was able to predict the signings of Dimitri Payet and Sofiane Feghouli months before they signed for West Ham [ see the premium Members forum ' Marquee Signings ] . It wasn't rocket science .

We got lucky with Payet and to a certain extent Moses - Alex Song was another loan which worked out , however you're eventually going to come unstuck playing that game [ see last season's transfer fiasco ] .

This season was all about rectifying last season's debacle - and to be fair we've got 4 quality players - but how many players were released or sold to obtain just 4 players ??

You are correct about the too many 0-4 and 0-5 drubbings though , something has to be done about that , even it means games like Hull at home when Allardyce was in charge , ok , maybe not to that extent , but Arsenal Away and Man City Away tactics from 2015 would do for starters -

Here's hoping .
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
 
Posts: 13099
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Turns to Stone on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:24 pm

HammerInMaryland wrote:Looking at the schedule, he should get 6 points from the next 4. Should get 7 and if he doesn't, he should be fired.


DaveWHU1964 wrote:I don't know where to start.


I personally think that if we play well and get a few points he should stay. But then I'd keep him if we got relegated. In fact I'd give him a 5 year contract and try and work alongside him to build a squad that could get us moving forward.

He's not perfect, and he does make a few odd decisions, but that's what we wanted. We didn't want Allardyce because he never made odd decisions. He always played the same players in the same style as long as they were fit.

It's a funny old time at West Ham.But I did really enjoy Monday night. And I enjoyed away at Southampton (shame about the result). And I didn't think we were that bad at Old Trafford.

So in 4 games (3 away from home), we've played really badly once. And we have 3 points. IIf that's sackable form, I worry about where we go from here.
User avatar
Turns to Stone
 
Posts: 7815
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Tony Almeida

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Iron-worx on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:06 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote:
You like myself and others will remember our first few games during Bilic's reign - Arsenal and Manchester City away will live long in my memory , the way we defended to a man , it was heroic , wouldn't you agree ?
Then we went to Anfield , kept a clean sheet and scored 3 . All good so far you'll agree ?

So what happened ?

We'd just had 4 years of Sam Allardyce's brand of safety-first football - I'd be willing to bet there was pressure from above [ and the fans ] to play a more expansive type of football , Roman Abramovich demanded it at Chelsea after the Mourinho years - post Avram Grant he employed Scolari , that didn't work out , then came Hiddink , Ancelotti , Villas-Boas , Matteo , Benitez , Mourinho [ again ] , Holland , Hiddink [ again ] and even now with Antonio Conte in charge they don't seem to be 100% happy .

Don't underestimate pressure from above from interferring Chairmen - I realise it's been going on for years , but in our case David Sullivan doesn't scour the earth for the very best young talent , he googles Free Transfers , players nearing the end of their contracts and plays the loan system .
That is why I was able to predict the signings of Dimitri Payet and Sofiane Feghouli months before they signed for West Ham [ see the premium Members forum ' Marquee Signings ] . It wasn't rocket science .

We got lucky with Payet and to a certain extent Moses - Alex Song was another loan which worked out , however you're eventually going to come unstuck playing that game [ see last season's transfer fiasco ] .

This season was all about rectifying last season's debacle - and to be fair we've got 4 quality players - but how many players were released or sold to obtain just 4 players ??

You are correct about the too many 0-4 and 0-5 drubbings though , something has to be done about that , even it means games like Hull at home when Allardyce was in charge , ok , maybe not to that extent , but Arsenal Away and Man City Away tactics from 2015 would do for starters -

Here's hoping .


OK Skye we go back a long long way and I am listening to what you're saying.

We looked like we had some aggression about us against Huddersfield, they didn't look particularly good but I think that we made them not look particularly good - We looked like we had a bit of the old Billy Bonds spirit anyhow and that's what matters win lose or draw.

You've talked me into getting off his case.

If I see us lose and it looks like we've put in a shift then that's OK as it always has been, there's nothing wrong with an honest defeat or even with an honest pasting.

But if I see that sort of Newcastle like cluelessness or if I see us roll over and surrender three or four nil then I'm back on his case immediately because that sort of thing just isn't acceptable.

:thup:
User avatar
Iron-worx
 
Posts: 5004
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Rebuilding Lady Garrets Tower

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Fishdo on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:20 pm

Iron-worx wrote:
OK Skye we go back a long long way and I am listening to what you're saying.

We looked like we had some aggression about us against Huddersfield, they didn't look particularly good but I think that we made them not look particularly good - We looked like we had a bit of the old Billy Bonds spirit anyhow and that's what matters win lose or draw.

You've talked me into getting off his case.

If I see us lose and it looks like we've put in a shift then that's OK as it always has been, there's nothing wrong with an honest defeat or even with an honest pasting.

But if I see that sort of Newcastle like cluelessness or if I see us roll over and surrender three or four nil then I'm back on his case immediately because that sort of thing just isn't acceptable.

:


That's got to be one of the fairest posts I have read here. :thup:
Fishdo
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby brothernero on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:45 pm

Hi everyone. First Post here, but been a reader for more years than I care to remember.

I was a season ticket holder for 25 years, Missed just 7 home games in 27 years.

Sadly for various reasons including lack of funds, health and the awful deposit situation that was imposed on us, I had no choice but to give up that season ticket. Broke my heart, but not as much as that final game at the Boleyn did.

I want my first post to be about how much I have faith in Slaven Bilic and how I am so hoping he can prove everyone wrong and continue to be our manager for many years to come. Heck even if we went down I am not sure I would want to see him leave. (I know that will be unpopular with some on here)

I want to add one simple stat if I may.

As West Ham United manager Slaven has overseen 29 Premier League wins and 28 Defeats.

So more wins than losses. Hard to want to see the back of a manager who has for West Ham a topflight winning record, even if it is by just that 1 game.

(I wont mention the owners, it is not good for my blood pressure)
brothernero
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:03 pm
Location: Essex

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:33 pm

Iron-Worx / I Am Iron Man - :thup:

If I thought our Owners were capable of attracting a Guus Hiddink or a Carlo Ancelotti I'd swing the axe myself , but that calibre of manager would just laugh at our transfer policy and our penny pinching owners , they're used to managing far better players than we have at our disposal anyway and I'm not sure they'd be suited to Category B footballers .
It took Alex Ferguson more than two seasons to get into his stride and that was with the backing of Manchester United's owners - even after coming within 4 points of a Champions League spot our Chairman put out a message of mistrust against Bilic , why on earth did he have to go public with that other than showing everyone who was in charge ? Then we moved to the Olympic Stadium where neither player or supporter felt at Home , our second season with Bilic in charge was difficult for all sorts of reasons and I won't bore you with them again .
We're both from a generation used to seeing West Ham managers trusted to do the job , given time to build a team of their choosing and it just feels plain wrong to me not to have the continuity of old - if a Manager can finish 7th , 4 measly points off a Champions League spot then get a team with Jonathan Calleri leading the line to beat Tottenham and finish 11th despite everything that happened last season then he can't be all that bad - Liverpool capitulated 5-0 to Manchester City last week , Arsenal were battered 4-0 by Liverpool the previous week - neither Klopp or Wenger are idiots .

With Bilic in charge I'll confidently predict a Top 10 finish for West Ham this season , it's time for Bilic and the team to show supporters and owners alike that he's worth the trust put in him by putting points on the table - I'll stick my neck out and go for 13 points from the next 6 games . Anything less than 10 points and I'll stop my ranting .
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
 
Posts: 13099
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Bamber Gascoigne on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:48 pm

Welcome brothernero :crest:
User avatar
Bamber Gascoigne
 
Posts: 3664
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:12 pm
Location: 51° 31′ 55″ N, 0° 2′ 22″ E

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Bamber Gascoigne wrote:Welcome brothernero



Indeed - our very first Socialist Emperor , any good with a lyre , mate ?

The musical instrument you understand , not our Chairman . :)
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
 
Posts: 13099
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:01 pm

brothernero wrote:Hi everyone. First Post here, but been a reader for more years than I care to remember.

I want to add one simple stat if I may.

As West Ham United manager Slaven has overseen 29 Premier League wins and 28 Defeats.

So more wins than losses. Hard to want to see the back of a manager who has for West Ham a topflight winning record, even if it is by just that 1 game.

(I wont mention the owners, it is not good for my blood pressure)



Welcome Nero. Like you I've also previously noted and posted up he's won more games than lost whilst going through his Sticky patch of late. I think it's easier to get carried away when the **** hits the fan and actually forget a lot of the good stuff (wins and performances) when it isn't going well or worse totally down play it as just a 'lucky' run or one-off result. Not having it, he's won and got decent performances based mainly on merit. The odd game we've been lucky but not for as long as we've done well in games since he's been here.

Long it out and the form/results will eventually shine through. I said at the beginning of last season we will find it real tough to get to grips with the stadium and predicted a shitty season but once we weather the storm we'll come out the other end in a very good state. We have the manager, we have the players, it's now just about having a bit more patience this season for it to gel together and click and I saw good signs on Monday in that regard. We looked bang on it, now it's about consistency.
User avatar
Colours never run
 
Posts: 8180
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"

Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby durham city hammer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:28 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:The question does still need to be asked....
.
If Monday was an example of the players pulling together and playing for their manager, why do they only do that every now and again. Why not every match? Why do they have to wait until their manager is about to be sacked before playing with intensity and a bit of passion?

Spot on Burnley :thup: motivation seems to be a big problem with this lot, they just seem to turn up when they fancy it or when the pressure is on the manager and they throw the towel in when the going gets too tough for them in games ! I really like Bilic and want him to succeed more than any manager that I can remember but you have to wonder if they have it too easy under him? this is a group of players who clearly need a rocket up their backsides from time to time, has he got it in him to do it ? I hope so !
durham city hammer
 
Posts: 2154
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ben, Big George, CapeTony, chalks, Crouchend_Hammer, EssexIron, Google Adsense [Bot], HammerMan2004, Iron-worx, keithrobsonsbookie, Los Martillos, Metal Hammer, mike1961, nb, preston, PrinceH, Redkanpps dog, Sauce!, simonpaulthomas, The Old Man of Storr, Tristan Shout, wildkard and 68 guests