West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:01 pm

brothernero wrote:Hi everyone. First Post here, but been a reader for more years than I care to remember.

I want to add one simple stat if I may.

As West Ham United manager Slaven has overseen 29 Premier League wins and 28 Defeats.

So more wins than losses. Hard to want to see the back of a manager who has for West Ham a topflight winning record, even if it is by just that 1 game.

(I wont mention the owners, it is not good for my blood pressure)



Welcome Nero. Like you I've also previously noted and posted up he's won more games than lost whilst going through his Sticky patch of late. I think it's easier to get carried away when the **** hits the fan and actually forget a lot of the good stuff (wins and performances) when it isn't going well or worse totally down play it as just a 'lucky' run or one-off result. Not having it, he's won and got decent performances based mainly on merit. The odd game we've been lucky but not for as long as we've done well in games since he's been here.

Long it out and the form/results will eventually shine through. I said at the beginning of last season we will find it real tough to get to grips with the stadium and predicted a shitty season but once we weather the storm we'll come out the other end in a very good state. We have the manager, we have the players, it's now just about having a bit more patience this season for it to gel together and click and I saw good signs on Monday in that regard. We looked bang on it, now it's about consistency.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby durham city hammer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:28 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:The question does still need to be asked....
.
If Monday was an example of the players pulling together and playing for their manager, why do they only do that every now and again. Why not every match? Why do they have to wait until their manager is about to be sacked before playing with intensity and a bit of passion?

Spot on Burnley :thup: motivation seems to be a big problem with this lot, they just seem to turn up when they fancy it or when the pressure is on the manager and they throw the towel in when the going gets too tough for them in games ! I really like Bilic and want him to succeed more than any manager that I can remember but you have to wonder if they have it too easy under him? this is a group of players who clearly need a rocket up their backsides from time to time, has he got it in him to do it ? I hope so !
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Gsbgsb on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:57 pm

Sorry but the "sticky patch of late" goes back certainly to the beginning of last season if not earlier.

Sky had a stat to the effect that in his first 20 odd games we let in about 1.1 goals a game and conceded 3 or more twice. In the last 50 or whatever that has gone up to 1.65 goals a game and we have conceded 3 or more 16 times.

Interestingly the goals per game scored has stayed pretty much the same around 1.5ish.

It suggests we got found out after the initial Payet impact and have not really reacted.

Bilic was spot on Monday and for that he has to be congratulated. Hopefully he will continue in a similar vein, if a top team puts a lot of goals past us that happens, it is why the Man Utd result was less concerning than some aspects of the performance.

Southampton was a worry in part I believe overshadowed by the sending off and the spirit afterwards, we gave away the ball in the same sloppy way. We even struggled on occasion versus Chesterfield and would have been punished by a better team. Less said about Newcastle the better. In general we have not shown any defensive cohesion all summer until Monday yet some still want to revert to a 4 simply to get more attacking players on the pitch.

In part Antonio is the problem, certainly one of the best players that has to play, ideally in a 3 he would be the RWB but does not want to play that role it appears. Means he has to have an attacking role and that means someone else sits out. Our central midfield is weak on the ball so against a pressing team bypassing it was the right tactic but that works because you can use AC as a focal point to play off that no-one else really provides, not Sakho real strength.

Conclusion we are still a squad in transition. We have forwards who could play with 4 at the back but central defence and midfield especially is not suited to it at present. To my mind best results over a season come from playing to your strengths and that is 3.

What having the likes of Arnie, Hernandez etc at the club does mean is options upfront and when AC is out another top striker if getting the ball to him may prove more difficult.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Fishdo on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:58 pm

Didn't Ginge say about how we are sticking to a back three as it's proved to be our best set up...

I read that on OS, I think, this morning ....

It read to me like it had been agreed by the team and manager before the match on Monday and would suggest that we may be sticking to that...
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby IanBishopLegend7 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:10 pm

I have got time for him, as long as he doesn't drop Collins again, or move Antonio around to accommodate lesser players i.e everyone else.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby BostonHammer on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:18 pm

I love Slaven overall, sometimes his tactics shock me, but overall I say stick.

HOWEVER, if he persists with Chicha on the wing or drops him, than I will lose faith.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Fishdo on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:33 pm

I would think Cheech has a very strong contract clause as do a couple of players here about his appearances and starts as it also linked to their bonuses which are used to pad out his/their basic wage...

I sometimes wonder if that's one of Slavs problems when it comes to some team selections and him being obliged to play certain players and that ends up causing issues in terms of the balance etc
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:39 pm

BostonHammer wrote:I love Slaven overall, sometimes his tactics shock me, but overall I say stick.

HOWEVER, if he persists with Chicha on the wing or drops him, than I will lose faith.



He's not on the wing, he played up front on Monday playing alongside 2 other Forwards. Agree on the first part.

And personally speaking, I really, really liked how it operated. He was unlucky not to score and still caused havoc around the box floating around (a couple of times he made his way across to the right helping by winning the ball back).
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Ifebbubbles on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:05 pm

I seriously cant believe I have just read Antonio is the problem. The only problem with Antonio is that we don't have another 10 of him. The most important player in our team. Much more consistent than Lanzini.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby sgb1972 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:09 pm

Colours never run wrote:He's not on the wing, he played up front on Monday playing alongside 2 other Forwards. Agree on the first part.

And personally speaking, I really, really liked how it operated. He was unlucky not to score and still caused havoc around the box floating around (a couple of times he made his way across to the right helping by winning the ball back).


He's a seasoned goal scorer, which we've desperately needed and not had since arguably Ashton, hence why we signed him.

If we wanted a forward who could play left or right, in behind, and so on, then we should have signed one.

It's not what he's best at - play round pegs in round holes.

It would be like signing Defoe and playing him in this manner, just wouldn't happen.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby IanBishopLegend7 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:10 pm

Ifebbubbles wrote:I seriously cant believe I have just read Antonio is the problem. The only problem with Antonio is that we don't have another 10 of him. The most important player in our team. Much more consistent than Lanzini.


100% agree. except we could have 10 of him and one Collins.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:27 pm

But he is playing in his favoured position, up front in a front 3. I don't understand why people get their knickers all knotted up thinkingbhes somehow playing out of position now when he's still up front, banging goals in or rattling posts and creating chances like he always has done. If he was constantly played in say Cresswell or Zabaletas position then yeah I'd agree that's not where he should be played but not as it was on Monday night. He still looked like the same player I've known him to be, a predator in and around the box.

Anyone got one of those fancy 'touch maps' thingy majiggy to see whether he is playing in and around the box to back up the point?
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby bitter-iron-ny on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:41 pm

BostonHammer wrote:I love Slaven overall, sometimes his tactics shock me, but overall I say stick.

HOWEVER, if he persists with Chicha on the wing or drops him, than I will lose faith.


His positioning on Monday was fairly reminiscent of where he plays for El Tri.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby sgb1972 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:59 pm

Colours never run wrote:But he is playing in his favoured position, up front in a front 3. I don't understand why people get their knickers all knotted up thinkingbhes somehow playing out of position now when he's still up front, banging goals in or rattling posts and creating chances like he always has done. If he was constantly played in say Cresswell or Zabaletas position then yeah I'd agree that's not where he should be played but not as it was on Monday night. He still looked like the same player I've known him to be, a predator in and around the box.

Anyone got one of those fancy 'touch maps' thingy majiggy to see whether he is playing in and around the box to back up the point?


Can't claim to have seen too much of him at Leverkusen, but for me he's always played through the middle, penalty box goal scorer. Never seen him play as wide / deep as he did Monday. If it works and the players happy, great. Perhaps he was asked to play a different role Monday, suited Slav's tactics.

If we play him and AC in the same team, set up 3-5-2.

...........................Hart
..............Fonte. Reid. Collins
Antonio. Obiang. Kouyate Cresswell
..........................Lanzini
..................Carroll. Hernandez

If we stick to three at the back, very hard / impossible to fit Antonio, Carroll, Hernandez and Arnautovic in same team.

Antonio a risk in that position possibly, but Zabaleta will get roasted against top teams at wing back.

As others have said, unbalanced squad, especially with Lanzini the only creative central midfielder.

We look much better defensively as a three, but then a problem how we line up elsewhere.

Slav's got his work cut out.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby DrVenk on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:02 pm

Moved further left and more withdrawn as the game went on. Looks like 60/40 split between playing off Carroll and playing left wing.

Image
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:08 pm

The area in front of goal and inside the box where I expect him to be playing in. I see nothing wrong with it and he was still a threat just as the other 2 Forwards were.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby DrVenk on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:11 pm

Yup, kept their back line on their toes in the early periods. Was good to see.

I think people are just griping about how he was shunted further wide as the game went on. Ticked me off a bit at the time too.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:12 pm

sgb1972 wrote:[
If we play him and AC in the same team, set up 3-5-2.

...........................Hart
..............Fonte. Reid. Collins
Antonio. Obiang. Kouyate Cresswell
..........................Lanzini
..................Carroll. Hernandez

If .




Like you, I also like the look of that formation when the right players are available. Hopefully we get to see a fair bit of it also.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:16 pm

DrVenk wrote:Yup, kept their back line on their toes in the early periods. Was good to see.

I think people are just griping about how he was shunted further wide as the game went on. Ticked me off a bit at the time too.



The way I look at it, is we need to find a bit of a happy medium and compromise where we don't take much away from a player but make the whole team stronger by fitting them into a system that works for most and that where I agree with Bilic doing what he did last night. It looked and felt good to me where there was genuine balance with attacking and defending and all the players to a man looked comfortable and happy enough to play it. Moving too far away to say a 4231 would start making the whole thing disjointed again where it may suit some players but not for most which is dangerous game to play and felt Bilic had been playing and tinkering with it in the past. Stick to what we're mostly good at.

Hernandez is also an experienced wise pro who wont mind playing slightly off centre for the sake of the team but I really do believe in any case, he's still operating in positions that a 2nd Striker playing off a target man would is anyway like on Monday, often looking for the knock down and hovering around Carroll like a fly. He's always on the move looking for that ball and won't give up chasing it. Great to see and an example to everyone else. So fuckingnlucky to have him I think and I saviour every second he plays for us. Not often young at to see genuine World class talent, especially a Forward.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Cellar-door on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:46 am

bitter-iron-ny wrote:His positioning on Monday was fairly reminiscent of where he plays for El Tri.


Not really, he usually plays as the left of a front 2 but still central, or point of the diamond in a 5-4-1.
He was farther left than normal on Monday, but if he's comfortable with it, should be fine for the half dozen games Carroll is healthy.
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