And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:44 am

Whatever you way you dress it up, Hernandez was not playing in a role that suited him
His entire career has been spent playing right up top, on the last man, in the penalty box.
He is a centre forward who operates in the box, not a wide forward who supports a CF, or a player who drifts in from wide

If you are going to play Carroll up top on his own, which in my opinion is not a good idea, then play someone who can play the left forward position and stick Hernandez on the bench

People are getting ahead of themselves about the way we played on Monday. We played a team who are likely to get relegated at home and, let's be honest, struggled to break them down. If we play this way for the rest of the season we will likely be more secure but will not win many games, and it will be proper boring

We have many skillful and flair players. Let's use them. Not rely on hoofball and knockdowns. That style of football is dead
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby bubbles1966 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:05 am

With better finishing we could easily have been two or three up at half time.

The 'flair' players keep going for three or four goals a game.

Their 'flair' is **** all use if they won't compete and fight. We'd just be a cheap, even shitter version of Arsenal.

It's time to win some games because nobody seems greatly 'entertained' by 60% possession at Newcastle and getting spanked 0-3.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Danny's Dyer Acting on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:06 am

P W D L
12 2 1 9
12 5 4 3


4 at the back...22 points over a season
3 at the back...60+ points over a season
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:09 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Whatever you way you dress it up, Hernandez was not playing in a role that suited him


If you are going to play Carroll up top on his own, which in my opinion is not a good idea, then play someone who can play the left forward position and stick Hernandez on the bench



We have many skillful and flair players. Let's use them. Not rely on hoofball and knockdowns. That style of football is dead


Whatever position Hernandez was playing he still managed to find himself in a scoring position but hit the bar instead , was anything preventing him from finding more goal scoring opportunities , he does have legs ?
Had a quiet game and we won 2-0 without him .

If Bilic had played Sakho ahead of Hernandez what would you have had to say then , Andy Carroll was immense on Monday night .

We have two flair players [ unless you're counting Haksabanovic , Samuelsen and Quina ] , both unavailable on Monday night .
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby hammerddh on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:24 am

listening to one of the football podcasts the other night, think it was the Times one.
Wish I could remember the fella name that said this but anyway the this guy made a comment that amonst footballing circles (he meant the managers/pro's etc) that Bilic's coaching methods were a laughing stock.

The guy seemed to have no axe to grind and like most genuinely seemed to like the man.

Slightly worrying
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Patito on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:30 am

Defensively, Hernandez was playing quite wide left as he had instructions to track the right back (or so it seemed). Bilic had us set up 5-4-1 when we didn't have the ball, then we transitioned to more of a 3-4-3 when we were attacking. I've seen a couple of different heat maps now and they both show Hernandez playing as a forward and playing very centrally as well. He managed to get on the end of Antonio's cross early doors when he hit the bar.

For now, to get a few points on the board I'm happy for Bilic to set up and play the way we did against Huddersfield. In a few months time though, I'd have expected us to play less and less of the direct stuff


Someone mentioned this in another thread but West Brom's full backs don't seem to get forward as much so perhaps hernandez will be spending less time tracking back anyway. He will benefit from Carroll and Antonio occupying defenders as well, I'm sure.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby MB on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:38 am

It is also the first game he has played off Carroll. You cannot expect things to click immediately.

He did ok on the left, cut in a few times and some of his link up play was excellent. He isn't Gary Lineker and nor in the modern game can you afford to have him just stay in the 18 yard box waiting for the ball to drop to him.

As others have said the challenge for Bilic now is finding an effective way to play three at the back without Carroll as he won't be available every game.

Lanzini and or Arnie are probably the solution, but that means tweaking things which Bilic has struggled with. All the talk of three at the back on the official site suggests it is here to stay so let's see if he can earn his pay and make it work.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby bubbles1966 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:40 am

hammerddh wrote:listening to one of the football podcasts the other night, think it was the Times one.
Wish I could remember the fella name that said this but anyway the this guy made a comment that amonst footballing circles (he meant the managers/pro's etc) that Bilic's coaching methods were a laughing stock.

The guy seemed to have no axe to grind and like most genuinely seemed to like the man.

Slightly worrying


That was being said after three games of Slaven's reign - and we finished 7th.

We've beaten everyone 'big' under Slaven.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby sjb958 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:46 am

I think Hernandez has joined the wrong club. His playing style does not fit in with the way we play. I would not be surprised if he gets pissed off pretty quickly and wants to leave by the end of the season.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby HammerMan2004 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:46 am

sjb958 wrote:I think Hernandez has joined the wrong club. His playing style does not fit in with the way we play. I would not be surprised if he gets pissed off pretty quickly and wants to leave by the end of the season.


I'm sure his massive salary will keep him content.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:13 am

This is not the right thread for this, but opinion of how you would rather West Ham play usually depends if you would prefer a West Ham with Carroll in the side or not
If you like the big target man and direct play with lots of crosses and players running off him, then of course you will want him in the team, and would be happy with that style. if you would rather we didn't play that way, and played with a bit more flair, then the liklihood is you would rather Hernandez up top, supported by either two or three attacking players

Personally, i prefer the latter which is why Monday's performance wasn't hugely appealing to me personally. Effective against limited opposition, yes I would say so. But not a long term solution for me

Plus, if we are going to play wing backs, then i would hope we go out and buy some who can do it properly. Wing backs need to do more than just run up and down and cross the ball. they need to help transition from defence to attack
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:17 am

sjb958 wrote:I think Hernandez has joined the wrong club. His playing style does not fit in with the way we play. I would not be surprised if he gets pissed off pretty quickly and wants to leave by the end of the season.



We still haven't seen Bilic's first team in action yet with Lanzini out injured and Arnautovic out while suspended - 4 games in , let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet .
Hernandez is already our Top Scorer , what has he got to be unhappy about ?
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Fishdo on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:17 am

hammerddh wrote:listening to one of the football podcasts the other night, think it was the Times one.
Wish I could remember the fella name that said this but anyway the this guy made a comment that amonst footballing circles (he meant the managers/pro's etc) that Bilic's coaching methods were a laughing stock.

The guy seemed to have no axe to grind and like most genuinely seemed to like the man.

Slightly worrying


It is one thing that seems to be a constant through out Slavs tenure here.... and I must admit it can't be wrong given the comments coming from the club and the performances on the pitch...

I hoping that will be addressed by Lewin... if he has the remit...?

You can also see what Reece and Stam said last season about a lack of intensity with us or Valencia saying 'how much harder' Everton training was compared to ours....

Then there was talk coming from the training ground during last pre season when Zabletta and Hart tried to increase and change the level of fitness training we were having at the time... so what does that say about it when players are trying to change it and spending more of their own time training because of the lack of fitness they feel is happening..

What also highlights that issue certainly last season etc was the level and the nature of our injuries....

I do see it right now as Slavs Achilles heel... and a few of our issues seem inextricably linked with our training regime ...

As others have said I think the over arching reason for that is Slavs loyalty / friendship with his coaching staff... I do wonder how much he gets involved in that side of things or understands it... I can't believe he doesn't see it himself so you then have to question that loyalty he has to those coaching staff...

I am so hoping that Lewin has been brought in to help assess and deal with that if it is a problem..
Last edited by Fishdo on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby ageing hammer on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:19 am

sjb958 wrote:I think Hernandez has joined the wrong club. His playing style does not fit in with the way we play. I would not be surprised if he gets pissed off pretty quickly and wants to leave by the end of the season.


I don't think he will get pissed off, he is a natural goal scorer and will score plenty goals for us, he already got 2 goals so I don't think his style is an issue more the teams confidence which should improve if we keep winning. :)
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:19 am

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote:P W D L
12 2 1 9
12 5 4 3


4 at the back...22 points over a season
3 at the back...60+ points over a season


We also played 4 at the back in 2016 and came 7th (with a base size of 38 games)

It is possible to get the balance right with four at the back, just needs a bit of work and decent coaching. The fact that Bilic hasn't been able to do it without Payet doesn't mean it is not feasible. Plenty of other teams manage it

If we are going to play 5 at the back, then to shift the balance of attack vs defence, we need better wing backs who are comfortable on the ball and can operate as midfielders and a centre half who can move back and forth between midfield and defence (similar to Luiz or Dier) - Kouyate could be that man

5 defenders, plus two non-attacking central central midfielders is not going to get us very far
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby Ben on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:21 am

AVB doesn't sound too happy with China at the moment...
could see him being looked at at some point
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:35 am

Ben wrote:AVB doesn't sound too happy with China at the moment...
could see him being looked at at some point



There's A Manager In There Somewhere . :)
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby DrVenk on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:09 pm

Colours never run wrote:The way I look at it, is we need to find a bit of a happy medium and compromise where we don't take much away from a player but make the whole team stronger by fitting them into a system that works...


miles wrote:Think he was under orders to track the fullback, which is fair enough when you're in the position we're in. He looks much better at that inside left position than up top on his own anyway. His buildup play is quite good, much better than I expected.


I think with Huddersfield it was an instance of just getting those three points by all costs, which was fair enough. Just going over the game again, the disadvantage that Chica had compared to Antonio, was that Chica didn't have Zabaleta behind him. Zaba's relentless pressing really pegged their left side back, and his understanding with Fonte closed their left side down completely. It was a joy to watch. Collins and Cresswell didn't quite play the same way and didn't have the same understanding. I do feel Cresswell has lacked some aggression for some time now, but for another thread.

If Bilic can finesse this system a bit when Lanzini is back (playing off Chica and Carroll) then we're onto something. To be fair, many posters have been calling for similar changes to the one he adopted Monday night. I do find Bilic a frustrating manager, but one who deserves a bit more time. The next few months are last chance saloon for me though, but a chance he deserves. Not sure the owners are on the same page and are probably ready to kick him out ASAP.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby fjthegrey on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:17 pm

Ben wrote:AVB doesn't sound too happy with China at the moment...
could see him being looked at at some point

With our current personnel we would get absolutely slaughtered in an AVB setup. If you thought our defenders weaknesses got exposed in Bilic's system, they'd look like plastic cones in AVB's. His teams virtually always play a super high line with an emphasis on relentlessly keeping the ball in the oppositions half. You leave yourself exposed to balls in behind but it's effective if the defensive press - which is hugely assisted by the closing of space due to the high line - can successfully suppress the oppositions passing. Pochettino plays a similar system.

A good manager, not one I'd employ outside an imminent transfer window with a few bob to spend on centrebacks with genuine recovery pace.
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Re: And the new Manager is Slaven Bilic

Postby McKnightmare on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:20 pm

Ben wrote:AVB doesn't sound too happy with China at the moment...
could see him being looked at at some point


Have mentioned this before, but the disgruntled, currently employed manager to keep an eye on is Mancini at Zenit.

He was widely reported as having been sounded out for Bilic's job the last time we went on a death run at the beginning of the year and is meant to have given a positive response back.

Despite going great guns (Zenit are top of the league after nine games), his agent was putting out the feelers to the press that he was unhappy with Zenit's dealings in the transfer window (the irony), and that he's ready to walk.
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