West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby fjthegrey on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:44 pm

Zaza didn't want to play for us, admitted it himself.

Moses couldn't get in our team because we had better options than him that season.

Snodgrass was likely bought above his head and was never more than an average player.

Sakho is a complete tosser, he should have been binned but he wasn't and we had few other options.

Arnautovic and Hernandez have barely played yet.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby e17 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:47 pm

tizzwoz wrote:I think time will tell us just how bad Slav was as a manager. He dined off of Dimitri Payet and the romance of the last season at UP. Once Payet downed tools, Slav had no answer. Fans hatred of the owners deflected attention off Slav for a very long time.

We've genuinely had about 4 seasons in my lifetime that are comparable to his first though.

If he'd have gone straight in with season 2 after Allardyce, Grant and Zola, I honestly don't think he'd be getting it in the neck like he is.

Slaven Bilic's second season as West Ham United manager was a standard season for a West Ham United manager. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one has been able to flag up these magical seasons when we were anything other than average and lukewarm in the top flight because they don't exist.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:55 pm

It seems to me like Bilic was a victim of his own success after that 1st season. People were expecting that level as more of the norm rather than the exception. Had he done what he done in the 2nd season for that first one much in the same vein as Allardyce managed, then I don't think anyone would be so up in arms with the typical poor start to this one.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Simply Moore on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:03 pm

Colours never run wrote:It seems to me like Bilic was a victim of his own success after that 1st season. People were expecting that level as more of the norm rather than the exception. Had he done what he done in the 2nd season for that first one much in the same vein as Allardyce managed, then I don't think anyone would be so up in arms with the typical poor start to this one.


An element of truth in this also coupled with the expectation the board falsely gave fans regards “next level” etc
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:06 pm

Historically, 7th and 11th finishes are most definitely not under achieving at West Ham.

If people believe he was somehow underachieving because he has the very good squad that people on here tell me he has and also believe that he wasn't undermined by his employers then that's down to them not Slav.

I do think he had to go in the end. Mentally, I think he was out of here months ago. It's just that I don't think for a minute that it was his fault that he got to that stage.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:13 pm

DaveWHU1964 wrote:Historically, 7th and 11th finishes are most definitely not under achieving at West Ham.

If people believe he was somehow underachieving because he has the very good squad that people on here tell me he has and also believe that he wasn't undermined by his employers then that's down to them not Slav.

I do think he had to go in the end. Mentally, I think he was out of here months ago. It's just that I don't think for a minute that it was his fault that he got to that stage.




Exactly that. When you're constantly undermined, you're likely check-out not knowing whether you're coming or going be it overlooking extending his contract or giving him a couple of games ultimatums every other game.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Beavis Danzig on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:16 pm

he was never at peace with the move. maybe i'm projecting myself onto him here, but i'm not sure he took what happened to our club any better than most of us.

said it before but he was the perfect manager for what west ham was. the OS might be a better fit for a dour pragmatist who doesn't rely on any level of expression or pride. build a soulless team to make the most of a soulless stadium.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:20 pm

Simply Moore wrote:[

An element of truth in this also coupled with the expectation the board falsely gave fans regards “next level” etc



Aye. Had he also not been able to manage to squeeze every last drop out of a mardy Payet who was always tempermental and not easy to work with down the years and just had an alright season, so much again wouldn't be made of his departure and the managers methods. But because he was able to extract all his brilliance for an entire season by giving him the perfect working environment and training programmes to flourish it wasnt an issue. No one ever questioned his training methods then, funny that.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:28 pm

Colours never run wrote:Exactly that. When you're constantly undermined, you're likely check-out not knowing whether you're coming or going be it overlooking extending his contract or giving him a couple of games ultimatums every other game.

Like I said earlier the same happened with Allardyce. He checked out within about a month of getting us to fourth and within days of not being supported in the January transfer market. When you're gone you're gone. Sensible people such as our last two gaffers know that and then don't invest the same level of commitment as they have before and why would they?

I note that quote someone's put up saying Moyes said that if it goes great here then fine, if not then he'll have spent seven months here and will move on to the next club. Wow! Mentally he's preparing for his exit already. Fair play - he's got the message sooner than any previous manager has - he's not been here a week yet has he? Anyone think that he'd have said anything remotely like that had he not already had the undermining that comes with a six month contract/ break clause?
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Colours never run on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:32 pm

I like how he automatically assumes they'll be anither job lined up afterwards. He ****'s this up, there won't be another job to go too which ain't playing footsie under the table with Keys and Gray as a 'pundit'.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby ashbanki on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Sullivan went to great pains to let us know that Bilic rejected Scot Hogan and Iheanacho - who was right there?
tizzwoz - How did Bilic "dine off Payet"? Did he get a huge payrise or contract extension?NO
The only one's "dining off Payet" were Sulli and Co in the form of an easy ride to the OS and deliberately breaking promises( retractable seating,£40m record signings,et al) in order to save money, when everyone was "merry" on the "Payet wine".
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Up the Junction on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:10 pm

ashbanki wrote:Sullivan went to great pains to let us know that Bilic rejected Scot Hogan and Iheanacho - who was right there?

Unfortunately Mr Sullivan says a lot of things that turn out to be not quite true.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby AlvinMartinAllen on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Simply Moore wrote:
An element of truth in this also coupled with the expectation the board falsely gave fans regards “next level” etc


The expectation was already there before the move when most were slaughtering Allardyce for our drop
in the table from 3rd at Christmas, with a common call that anyone could do better and that being 3rd was proof we didn’t need to move stadium to get to the next level. fans were singing ‘ are you watching Allardyce ‘ as Bilic was earning us the type of results and performances many believed was easily achievable.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:05 pm

Really good point AMA.

The narrative back then was that Allardyce was holding us back. The more recent narrative is that Bilic's poor management of a talented squad was holding us back. Neither narrative was true.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby pezza20 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:25 pm

The issue around contracts is a key factor in our past seasons.

Both Allardyce and Bilic both new going into their 3rd season they were dust. It's definitely not good management practice to have your key man treading water for 12 months especially when players know exactly what's going on.

The chuckle brothers are inept, if you aren't going to keep the present encumbent beyond year 3 change it at the end of the 2nd season, or at least award the bloke a 1 year extension ...

This is where their acumen at running a football club in the 20th century sadly falls foul. They haven't got a scooby.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Gsbgsb on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:26 pm

DaveWHU1964 wrote:It is not BFS v Bilic, that is like chalk and cheese in every respect, it is whether Bilic built on Sam.

Forget Bilic for a minute - that's done and dusted. IF you've been right about Bilic then the blame surely lies with those who appointed him doesn't it? And do you think that they built on Sam?

West Ham fans require more than a functional winning team according to Allardyce and he is right, winning is not enough, the team need to win with style.

Then, again, IF you're right then that's categoric proof that whatever else they are the Daves are not West Ham fans as West Ham fans would never appoint such a manager, right?



Sorry more blame the board for everything stuff which just reduces the strength of the legitimate criticisms there are.

I am sure the board when appointing Bilic did not expect him to fail. That is taking a conspiracy theory several steps too far. No they did not build on Sam because Bilic failed to maintain the basics that had been put in place, again his fault more than theirs. Their failure if any was not appreciating this earlier and getting rid of him in the summer when it was clear that it was not working.

As for appointing Sam in the first place, maybe the fans love attacking football but sometimes the needs of the club must come first. What the club needed and got was a pragmatic manager to sort out the dressing room, organise the club, get it back into the premiership and establish it there. People may not like the man or his football but he was the best appointment for the brief. Especially with hindsight G&S may have got managerial appoints wrong but Sam was spot on.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 pm

GSBGSB - I wonder if you'll be trotting out the same old same old not-their-fault stuff when Moyes fails. Will you again trot out the - it's more the fault of the employee than the man they, and only they selected? - line again. I think that line is already too thin and tired as it is.

Anyway, this is done now so lets see how this all pans out. They've selected their fourth manager in only seven years. He's another one not at the top of his profession but it's all they want and/ or can manage. Maybe it will work out and I hope it does because whilst I didn't want him here, now that he is I want him to succeed. And having seen how our owners operate I understand that he's at the only level his employers can afford / choose to pay out for and as such is perfectly in keeping with their "ambitions" which is what they said they wanted.

That's it for me on this thread. Good luck Slav. You had a bit of class about you in a club once renowned for it but in even shorter supply of it now you've gone.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Gsbgsb on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:48 pm

pezza20 wrote:The issue around contracts is a key factor in our past seasons.

Both Allardyce and Bilic both new going into their 3rd season they were dust. It's definitely not good management practice to have your key man treading water for 12 months especially when players know exactly what's going on.

The chuckle brothers are inept, if you aren't going to keep the present encumbent beyond year 3 change it at the end of the 2nd season, or at least award the bloke a 1 year extension ...

This is where their acumen at running a football club in the 20th century sadly falls foul. They haven't got a scooby.


If the board had offered Sam an extension presumeably at the beginning of his final season they would have been slaughtered on here after all he never was the right appointment was he? I suspect everyone, Sam, the board and the fans knew that season was his last.

As far as the fall from 3rd was concerned many say that was because he was not supported in the transfer window, as with the Payet season. I suspect far closer to the truth is that we had overachieved in the first few months based on one or two players and the other teams saw how to play against us. One or two January market buys were unlikely to make a difference as few if any difference makers (certainly at the top of the table) are transferred in January

As for Bilic the extension should never have been an issue, he should have gone in the summer in my view, certainly when apparently he stood by his coaching crew and would not replace them.

The board have failed to land the right transfer targets at the right time - legitimate criticism especially for summer windows.
They have mislead the expectation of the fans - stupid on their part and legitimate criticism.
The move is not what was promised and was handled appallingly - very legitimate criticism.

To my mind a lot of the rest is blame the board because they must be at fault for everything stuff.
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Gsbgsb on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:53 pm

DaveWHU1964 wrote:GSBGSB - I wonder if you'll be trotting out the same old same old not-their-fault stuff when Moyes fails. Will you again trot out the - it's more the fault of the employee than the man they, and only they selected? - line again. I think that line is already too thin and tired as it is.

Anyway, this is done now so lets see how this all pans out. They've selected their fourth manager in only seven years. He's another one not at the top of his profession but it's all they want and/ or can manage. Maybe it will work out and I hope it does because whilst I didn't want him here, now that he is I want him to succeed. And having seen how our owners operate I understand that he's at the only level his employers can afford / choose to pay out for and as such is perfectly in keeping with their "ambitions" which is what they said they wanted.

That's it for me on this thread. Good luck Slav. You had a bit of class about you in a club once renowned for it but in even shorter supply of it now you've gone.


I did not want Moyes, better for where we are than Bilic in my opinion but still far from sure he was the right man for the job.

Was a lot more optimistic that Bilic was the right man for the job at the time of his appointment than I am Moyes so no I believe if he fails they will deserve criticism.

Equally if he succeeds I will say I was wrong and credit them for the right appointment, I presume you will do the same?
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Re: West Ham United sack Slaven Bilic

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:26 pm

Not sure who, but someone on last cpuppet of pages mentioned Bilic 7th place finish and then also mentioned Roeder as a poor manager. He got us to 7th as well but didn't get cut any slack the next season
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