Gold and Sullivan ???

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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:42 am

God knows what may be happening in the background here. Maybe the potential new investor is already on board and these are the first steps to prepare a more direct involvement of the new investor, leading to a takeover of the club completely.
I'd never have Sullivan down for changing his habit of a lifetime.

Pellegrini is not the kind of manager you can push around. Somehow I think Sullivan is doing this not entirely voluntarily, something's afoot and this looks very much like a transitional period at the club.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby e-20 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am

StackerJJ wrote:
If you start as a lower level (poorer) club thats exactly what you do, keep the expenditure lower, put the money into wages and sign players on loan / older players on bigger wages (or thats what i used to do anyway) its been 15 years since i played the game though so i'm sure some functions have changed :lol:

I never managed the rich teams, was boring.


You are right thats how both Chelsea and Man City started to improve for some years until you reach that level where you can attract players on merit. And I suspect this was sully trying to copy the concept.

One big difference however is that system means you have to pay out a lot of money over some years to keep the momentum going by replacing the old, injury prone and cruising players you inevitably get hold of. That is the part that Sully in his wisdom, totally failed to take in. Indeed he doesn't have the financial clout to remotely copy that aspect only enough to try to con us. How someone who has spent so many years in football clubs and calls himself a serious fan, even if he is bereft of any real talent in the business, can't see that simple requirement for success is beyond me.

Which is why I tend to believe, and continue to believe that everything he does is for short term effect to try to fool those he needs to fool, and we are at the top of that list. Which is why he was so shocked out of his complacent stupor by the demonstrations last season and so feared where it might end especially in money terms the only terms he is interested in at the end of the day. So for a while at least he will invest and try to build bridges, but it will be up to the fans (and through them the media) to ensure that this is anything other than a short term survival mechanism over any real change in his motives. This is the last thing he wanted to do (i.e. eject the moths from his wallet) so only time will tell how long it will last before the coasting returns.

Yes thanks to Pelle some enthusiasm is returning (but that is why Sully employed him) but we must never let it go to our heads and must be vigilant at every turn.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby e-20 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:11 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:God knows what may be happening in the background here. Maybe the potential new investor is already on board and these are the first steps to prepare a more direct involvement of the new investor, leading to a takeover of the club completely.
I'd never have Sullivan down for changing his habit of a lifetime.

Pellegrini is not the kind of manager you can push around. Somehow I think Sullivan is doing this not entirely voluntarily, something's afoot and this looks very much like a transitional period at the club.


Yes totally agree its certainly a defence mechanism generated through fear (and that wish to leave a legacy he can bask in). Its the reasons/depth/true motives behind that fear thats interesting, whether its face value (which might be enough when you considers the potential repercussions) or as you suggest something bigger and deeper.

One has to consider that just maybe the plan to a new serious investor/owners is in place or at least moving in that direction, it might be why we have a serious International businessman/investor sat on the board (Delboy Ent. hardly seems a likely reason) and why we have a manager that no one would have believed we could get a few years back. Even though on paper investment and such a manager might have looked rather more likely with the hype and potential of the move as opposed the mess we are in now. So maybe a prospective handover is indeed coming together, awaiting that moment in 4 to 5 years when the claw back clause ends. And yes that might be an even bigger reason that Sully nearly had a heart attack over the troubles last season. Being relegated might be bad enough but a toxic club would not be something new glossy investors would want to be associated with, though one might just argue that the FA and the Premier League were hardly going be sympathetic with their product being tarnished World wide.

But I do want to believe your explanation, and it does have legs but equally with this mob any hope of change looks only too appealing and thus too easy to be optimistic about on any evidence. Time will tell.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby e-20 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 pm

spod wrote:It's tempting to think that the meetings with fans, the mini-marches, the pitch invasions and the protest in front of the director's box have all had their effect on Sullivan and he's now seen the light. Chastened and humbled, he's recognised his shortcomings, stepped back from the role of fantasy football manager and recruited experienced professionals to take this club forwards.

I actually think he's doing a reasonable job of playing that role.
But one look at the response from his attack dog in The Sun and elsewhere shows you what's really going on.
He's a money-grubber, a chancer, an egomaniac.
He will never change.


Spot on anything he is doing is because he has to while Brady's comments show the true feeling behind the scenes and we need to be wary of that.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:04 pm

Sullivan has been running a football club for, what is it, 25 years now ?
Has he ever hired a high-profile manager like Pellegrini ?
Has he ever allowed anyone else but himself to choose players and mastermind negotiations for those players ?
Has he ever overseen a huge net spend in any given transfer window ?

I simply cannot believe that after all this time, inspired by the Burnley scenes, he woke up one morning and said “I've been doing it wrong all those years, I need to overhaul the complete approach in which to run my club!“.

That's why I believe something or rather someone else is behind the whole hiring MP and a DoF idea, driving this. It goes against everything Sullivan has believed in through the years:
The concept that whatever happens, Sullivan knows best, better than professional football people, better than scouts, better than managers.
I can see Sullivan stepping aside, but only with the guarantee of getting his pot of gold from someone in order to do so.
Last edited by HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby Mr P on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:22 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Sullivan has been running a football club for, what is it, 20 years now ?
Has he ever hired a high-profile manager like Allardyce ?


Well, yes
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby East Sussex Hammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:26 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Sullivan has been running a football club for, what is it, 20 years now ?
Has he ever hired a high-profile manager like Allardyce ?
Has he ever allowed anyone else but himself to choose players and mastermind negotiations for those players ?
Has he ever overseen a huge net spend in any given transfer window ?

I simply cannot believe that after all this time, inspired by the Burnley scenes, he woke up one morning and said “I've been doing it wrong all those years, I need to overhaul the complete approach in which to run my club!“.

That's why I believe something or rather someone else is behind the whole hiring MP and a DoF idea, driving this. It goes against everything Sullivan has believed in through the years:
The concept that whatever happens, Sullivan knows best, better than professional football people, better than scouts, better than managers.
I can see Sullivan stepping aside, but only with the guarantee of getting his pot of gold from someone in order to do so.


Hamburg I have been saying this for ages . There is someone behind all of this as these are not normal rational Sullivan decisions. When is it Tripp Smith becomes free is it not around the 17 June ?????
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby Kialos on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:29 pm

When you see a lioness tending to her young cubs it looks all lovey dovey.

She'll be ripping the throat out of an antelope later on.

Never trust the scum, whatever they do will always be to benefit themselves.

If a by product of that is it benefits West Ham and the fans that is what is it, a by product and not their primary objective.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby BillUp on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:33 pm

I simply cannot believe that after all this time, inspired by the Burnley scenes, he woke up one morning and said “I've been doing it wrong all those years, I need to overhaul the complete approach in which to run my club!“.


Maybe his wife and his kids have told him enough is enough. No more getting slaughtered in the directors box, in the streets and in the press. It makes us all suffer as a family. We are rich and can live comfortably for the rest of our lives. Its time you semi retired.

This is what should have happened, and hopefully it is. I think we will see him take more of a back seat now until the club is sold.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:36 pm

Haha, my bad, Allardyce was a stupid typo...of course I meant Pellegrini.
Allardyce is actually very much a Sullivan-style manager.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby woodford on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:40 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Haha, my bad, Allardyce was a stupid typo...of course I meant Pellegrini.
Allardyce is actually very much a Sullivan-style manager.



wasn't Allardyce one of Europe's highest paid managers under Sullivan?
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby ageing hammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:43 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Haha, my bad, Allardyce was a stupid typo...of course I meant Pellegrini.
Allardyce is actually very much a Sullivan-style manager.
woodford wrote:


wasn't Allardyce one of Europe's highest paid managers



Yes....until he got caught :wink:
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby Johnny_C WHU on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Personally I think its a little from column A and from column B.

Last year the hierarchy were starting to be rumbled. There was enough noise with the failed protest(s) and the Burnley incident to have the media etc. discuss their impact at the club and it wasn't positive. This also effected the fence sitters and people generally ignorant to their dealings for them have their heads turned and question. The three couldn't sit on their hands this summer window or I believe it would be worse than last year.
Season ticket sales were always going to be high, we are a loyal bunch for our sins.

Added to that we was also disastrous last year and was saved by worse clubs then ours. Credit to Moyes, but any other year there would be a strong possibility we would have went down. I believe that if we went down it would be disastrous to them.

All these factors contributed to where we are now, a dynamic 'next level' manager and seemingly better players coming to the club (early days yet).

They cannot tarnish club London, they cannot let the franchise be damaged beyond repair as I believe the end game is a sale of West Ham London.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:52 pm

OT: How does one put two separate quotes from two different posters in one reply ?
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby Faithless on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:56 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:OT: How does one put two separate quotes from two different posters in one reply ?


When you do your post/qoute scroll to the bottom and you should see "TOPIC REVIEW: XXXXXXXXX" you can cycle through the previous posts and the quote icon is there top right on each post to quote from
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby Up the Junction on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:14 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“

Place one after the other. Don't embed them within each other.

I find it's easier to use notepad when multi-quoting. Then simply copy the entire post back.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:26 pm

UTJ, what do you mean, use notepad ? Is that a function when composing a reply ?
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby Faithless on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:27 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“


Sounds like you're quoting a post with quote in it? If your still having trouble after UTJ post see below:
(I've removed an = from the quotes so it shows up in text)

[quote"Up the Junction "][quote"HamburgHammer "]Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“[/quote]
Place one after the other. Don't embed them within each other.

I find it's easier to use notepad when multi-quoting. Then simply copy the entire post back.[/quote]


You'd need to cut the [quote"HamburgHammer "]Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“[/quote] out and paste it before or after the other quote and you get:

HamburgHammer wrote:Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“

Up the Junction wrote: Place one after the other. Don't embed them within each other.

I find it's easier to use notepad when multi-quoting. Then simply copy the entire post back.


That make sense? Don't try and quote this post though :lol:
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Postby HamburgHammer on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:44 pm

HamburgHammer wrote:Faithless, I keep getting “You may embed only 1 quotes within each other.“


Up the Junction wrote:Place one after the other. Don't embed them within each other.
I find it's easier to use notepad when multi-quoting. Then simply copy the entire post back.


Alright, seems I finally got it!
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