Late David Gold, Sullivan and Brady

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hammerdivone
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by hammerdivone »

ToiletDuck wrote:Its just more 'dissapointment'
What is?
Kialos
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Kialos »

ludo22 wrote:I think we are not unlike Arsenal now(perhaps a low-rent version) where the owners plan is to do just enough to keep the cash cow ticking along.The odd "marquee" signing to keep the punters vaguely happy but mostly buying players who are not quite good enough for what should be the real target.In our case,progression to the top 8,in Arsenal's case,winning the Premiership and a proper tilt at the CL.Arsenal is just on a bigger scale with richer and cleverer men in charge.They have even done their best to put us in a soulless toilet like the Emirates.It's only a matter of time until some ****wits are ranting away after the game on "West Ham TV" whilst wearing a West Ham onesie.
Comparing the market traders with how a club like Arsenal is run? "Perhaps a low rent version", are you having a laugh?

As far as running a football club are concerned there are no similarities at all.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Bitter 'n' Twisted »

Rio wrote:Gents. Petty name calling is just going to be removed. So there's no point carrying it on
Rio I don't think threatening West Ham's owners or their family on a public forum is particularly clever. If anything that is the post that should have been deleted. Not the one were I rhetorical asked if he was bright or whatever he may have retorted with.

For the record, I didn't see his reply but if you had to delete it then it probably proved my point.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Rio »

Bitter 'n' Twisted wrote: Rio I don't think threatening West Ham's owners or their family on a public forum is particularly clever. If anything that is the post that should have been deleted. Not the one were I rhetorical asked if he was bright or whatever he may have retorted with.

For the record, I didn't see his reply but if you had to delete it then it probably proved my point.

For the record I read the post you are referring to and since this comment went back. I couldn't see the poster in question directly threatening, merely implying that, as is the want of the modern world nowadays, that it could lead to dischord.

The petty name calling from both parties however was unnecessary and detracted from the thread. As indeed does this
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by ludo22 »

Kialos wrote:
Comparing the market traders with how a club like Arsenal is run? "Perhaps a low rent version", are you having a laugh?

As far as running a football club are concerned there are no similarities at all.
I am not talking about the day to day stuff.I am talking about the owners' methods.Both teams moved to a new stadium to "compete".Neither is true.Neither team spends enough in the transfer market.Both sets of supporters complain about not spending money .Both teams failed their "minimum requirement" from last season due to an incoherent transfer policy.You could argue that both teams have a complicit manager.Arsenal are in grave danger of losing their best player as we did.The owners do the bare minimum to achieve what they want which clearly isn't the same as the fans.Just because we have a couple of porn gobshites instead of "respected" businessmen and oligarchs doesn't make the ethos any different.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Kialos »

You are using one relatively unsuccessful season for Arsenal and conveniently forgetting the seasons when they did compete for the title and did win trophies. They own and have paid for their own ground, one purpose built for football, and generating around £1m per home game. How anyone can claim the West Ham board had a similar ethos when they have moved us into a rented multi sport arena and only ever getting a fraction of match day revenue is beyond me.

I'd like to see what the figures on the balance sheets are before claiming the two teams are run on the same guidelines. There is certainly no correlation to performances on the pitch, quality of playing staff, quality of training facilities or anything else of importance for that matter.

I don't think anyone who saw the way Arsenal demolished us at home last season would be sitting there and thinking, you know what, we are really just a low rent version of them..
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by the pink palermo »

Arsenals cash balance in 2004 was £26m , not dissimilar to what ours was in our last published accounts .

Meanwhile, Arsenal have improved their cash balance to £226m ........

Their cash balance is more than Real Madrid, Bayern Munich's and Barcelona's combined .

We are nowhere near Arsenal in terms of financial muscle . Few clubs, if any, are .

If our Board genuinely believe we are riding on their coat tails / emulating their model they should all be sacked for incompetence .

We're miles apart .We will never catch them .

All numbers from the Swiss Ramble .
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by pezza20 »

Comparing the market traders with how a club like Arsenal is run? "Perhaps a low rent version", are you having a laugh?

As far as running a football club are concerned there are no similarities at all.[/quote]

To put in context, Arsenal have qualified for Euro footbal for the last 10 years plus, we've qualified once via league position.

Arsenal's wage bill is c 120m quid, ours is 70 to 80m, they effectively pay 40m more to earn through Euro comps an additional 20m in TV revenues, plus global revenues, plus attracting better players year on year. whereas we finish at best 11th year on year. They rarely make an expensive cock up in transfers like our idiots do, and when they do they normally offload for decent money. Payer went for 25m, Sanchez after a few seasons would probably go for twice as much. Arsenal also have on their board one of the richest oligarchs whereas we have the richest traders from Peckham ....
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by bubbles1966 »

I think people are being a little harsh on Ludo.

His argument is essentially that Arsenal really show no ambition beyond maintaining a level (top 4) - never actually pushing on to 'the next level' - winning the league, competing properly in Europe. Meanwhile they've been fattening their wad.

It's only now they've been relegated to the Europa League that they are spending.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Hammer.CA »

Have you seen the Arsenal cheese board? No comparison.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by the pink palermo »

ludo22 wrote: I am not talking about the day to day stuff.I am talking about the owners' methods.Both teams moved to a new stadium to "compete".Neither is true.Neither team spends enough in the transfer market.Both sets of supporters complain about not spending money .Both teams failed their "minimum requirement" from last season due to an incoherent transfer policy.You could argue that both teams have a complicit manager.Arsenal are in grave danger of losing their best player as we did.The owners do the bare minimum to achieve what they want which clearly isn't the same as the fans.Just because we have a couple of porn gobshites instead of "respected" businessmen and oligarchs doesn't make the ethos any different.
I think all of that is fair comment Ludo .However ....

The ethos isn't different , the results though are .Doing just enough to maintain a top 4 spot for a dozen or so years is rather different to doing just enough to stay in the division .

Arsenal have also won a few trophies in the past couple of years as well .I can't help but feel a good cup run would do our owners the world of good in terms of how they are perceived .
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Georgee Paris »

Have we not followed the Glazier route at Man U rather than the Arsenal plan?
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Rio »

Georgee Paris wrote:Have we not followed the Glazier route at Man U rather than the Arsenal plan?
I'd say we have.

For a trio (Brady especially) who aspire to the Arsenal model, they've nearly achieved it. Well they've succesfully attained Arse level. And left us with Nil. A mere vowel away from complete success
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by hammernsickle »

Georgee Paris wrote:Have we not followed the Glazier route at Man U rather than the Arsenal plan?
We're a lot like Manchester United, but without all that talent, history and trophy baggage.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by szola »

the pink palermo wrote: Meanwhile, Arsenal have improved their cash balance to £226m ........

Their cash balance is more than Real Madrid, Bayern Munich's and Barcelona's combined .
Genuine question - what does Arsenal have such a good cash balance, and what level would you consider to be sufficent for us?
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by the pink palermo »

szola wrote: Genuine question - what does Arsenal have such a good cash balance, and what level would you consider to be sufficent for us?
Szola, my personal preference is always to have assets on the pitch , not in the bank account, within reason and without endangering the clubs existence .Were I an Arsenal supporter ( which thank the ..etc) , I'd be fuming at being asked to keep buying a hugely expensive ST just to see the cash pile grow and grow .I believe they have too much cash under "worked" , and we have too little .Remember our cash pile, and Arsenals, at the accounting date would include a very significant amount of the following seasons ST revenue . I'd prefer to see us with about £50m - of which half is the following seasons ST money .IMO Arsenal have £100m sitting there doing bugger all .

In the context of comparing out club with theirs when discussing the "ethos" of approach to running a club , if we assume both clubs are adhering to the same ethos then it's clear Arsenal are miles ahead of us , which was my point .
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by bubbles500 »

So Every club just happy to maintain prem status is the same model as Arsenal is a ridiculous argument.Theyve had 20 years of continuous CL football.And just spent £50m + to try and get back there.Being happy to just be in top 4 is in no way comparable to being happy not to get relegated.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by Kialos »

If one team is wishes to compete and the other doesn't then the ethos is not the same. I dispute that all Arsenal aspire to is to finish in the CL places, they have come close to the top and they have a history of trying to compete in the CL not go out at the first hurdle and they also win domestic cups. That is a long way from the ambition of our lot within our peer group in the league. I am not expecting us to be in the CL places!

I don't have any particular knowledge of how Arsenal treat or view their supporters so cannot tell if they share the same ethos of our owners of treating them as mugs to be viewed as revenue source at every opportunity and nothing else along with viewing away supporters as an irrelevance. I understand they have shareholder meetings or some kind of engagement with supporters where they are asked and expected to answer a range of questions put to them, good and bad, which seems a lot more credible than the SAB nonsense. I wonder how Arsenal used the PL away supporters money?

No. comparing apples with pears is not my understanding of "ethos"
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by bubbles1966 »

bubbles500 wrote:So Every club just happy to maintain prem status is the same model as Arsenal is a ridiculous argument.Theyve had 20 years of continuous CL football.And just spent £50m + to try and get back there.Being happy to just be in top 4 is in no way comparable to being happy not to get relegated.
Yes it is.

Arsenal supporters know their club has a top 10 income in the world so should be a bit better than also-rans and should occasionally look like they might win the league or get somewhere in Europe.

20 years of continuous CL football? So what? You say it like it's a trophy. A bit like staying up.

It's lovely for the accountants and owners but where's the ride for the supporters - just knowing that you're making up the numbers?

It's the same ****, with more money.
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Re: Gold and Sullivan ???

Post by bubbles500 »

This comment was removed by a moderator because it failed to abide by our community standards. For more details, please refer to the Forum Terms of Use. Replies may also be deleted
Last edited by the pink palermo on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Flaming .Kindly desist .
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