Jose Fonte Confirmed

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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby chalks on Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:01 pm

westham,eggyandchips wrote:
Straightforward question, no need to be rude.


If you are an adult, that's an embarrassingly precious reply :lol:
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby Jumby on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:05 am

With Reid and Collins you get intensity, with Fonte and Ogbonna you get laid back slackness and grabbing, it can't carry on.

For a big lad Fonte doesn't dominate anywhere near enough, he looks in fantastic condition and yet he plays like an utter drip.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby Colours never run on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:23 am

They grapple, pull back, wrestle with opponents because they're incapable of dealing with them properly and feel the need to resort to it to stop them. I genuinely struggle to remember them making a tackle as they're often too far away from the ball.

The worst is when either one goes high up the pitch to challenger someone for the ball but easily get turned and instead of chase back, they just give up and watch on as the attacker speeds away with the ball at their feet. Complete lack of urgency or ability to run in Fontes case for 90 mins. I can excuse it to a point for Fonte as hes getting on but not for the much younger fitter Centre Back.

And it's one thing with 1 leaving a gaping hole in defence not keeping a disciplined flat back four but both often get dragged around their final third exposing huge gaping holes in the defensive line for the opposition to occupy the space instead at will, every single game.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:07 am

chalks wrote:
If you are an adult, that's an embarrassingly precious reply


Thanks for adding to the debate. :hush:
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby YorksHammer on Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:19 am

There's one moment from last season, annoyingly I can't remember who against, where Fonte made an inch perfect tackle tracking back into the area. Something we haven't seen enough of.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:36 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Personally, my view is that if we stick a decent DM in front of him and Reid and actually do some work on the training ground to get organised, i think him and Reid will be a decent partnership (at least for this season)


Crouchie gets it -

Southampton had one of the best DMs of the Premiership in Oriol Romeu playing in front of his centre halves - having a competent defensive midfielder makes for a more settled back 4 [ or 3 ] -
The nearest thing we've ever got to a proper dm was Alex Song , he had great positional sense with a deceptive stride on him , the nearest player to Alex Song we have now is Kouyate and he's been out for the past two games - William Carvalho has the same excellent positional sense that Song had at West Ham , if or when we sign him we'll see an improvement in Fonte and the rest of our centre halves .
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby bubbles1966 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:11 am

The broader question, which applies to Fonte and a number of recruits, is why are we buying players that are successful in one system and then trying to shoe-horn them into something different here? It even applies to their playing positions.

Nordtveit had spent his final year at Borussia playing as a left sided CB in a back 3. Byram was a right sided midfielder. Neither has played a minute in those positions for us.

Whether the indidvidual is good or bad is almost neither here nor there; why think someone who plays a particular role, or fits a particular system is going to come here and play some other position in some other tactical set up?

The kind of centre halves we need depends on the tactics the team will employ. Likewise, full backs. Forwards etc. There has to be a clearly understood style and playing approach that underpins the whole thing.

It sometimes feels like we pick a position and say it needs filling - but don't look any deeper than that.

I wonder about Carvalho in that respect. We need an enforcer in midfield. Is that what he is? (I dunno because I've only seen him a couple of times for Portugal and noticed other players more).
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:57 am

It is lazy scouting.

'oh look, that player is the best defender in a decent defence, let's buy him'

I am always wary of buying defensive players who have played for the same team for a long time, or who play as part of a very solid and developed unit

i don't massively rate Maguire but he has played for a couple of teams, and for teams that have not been very good or organised at the back. This shows he is likely to be flexible, and his potential ability is not being over played by the systems he has played in

Scouting is about identifying good players who are not made to look better than they are because of where they play.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby WickfordHammer86 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

I think when Fonte signed I got caught up in the loving and good luck messages he was getting from Southampton fans. The same way I spoke about James Tomkins to Palace friends when he left for example (did a good job for us, played his heart out, west ham boy etc).

From what I'd seen of Fonte, I knew he wasn't fast and that age wasn't on his side but I at least expected him to be smart, solid defender. However, 8 months down the line and I think it's clear he's pretty out of his depth, especially in a 4 at least. He's much better on the right of a back 3 as he gets a bit more protection from the wing back when defending, and any errors can (hopefully) be swept up by the central defender of the 3.

I hope he plays and plays well in a WHU win on Wednesday v Cheltenham, purely for confidence reasons.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby the pink palermo on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:53 pm

His performance had a touch of the agent Fonte about it on Saturday .
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby Yea Why Not on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:28 pm

WickfordHammer86 wrote:The same way I spoke about James Tomkins to Palace friends when he left for example (did a good job for us, played his heart out, west ham boy etc).


The West Ham boy who supports Tottenham? :)

He wasn't good enough for us before, isn't good enough now and is currently struggling to get into Palace's team

We should be looking for someone on Reid's level, not someone who was behind Collins in the pecking order
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby wizzo_66 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:32 pm

Yea Why Not wrote:(Tomkins) is currently struggling to get into Palace's team



Recovered from injury to play the last 10 mins against Huddersfield and then played the 90 against Liverpool?

Did you just make that up?
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby bubbles1966 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:34 pm

Southampton are being pressed for Van Dijk.

If he goes to Chelsea, Man U, Spurs, Everton - he'll be a roaring success.

If he goes to Liverpool, Arsenal or Man City - people will be asking why so much was spent on him.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby WickfordHammer86 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:36 pm

Yea Why Not wrote:The West Ham boy who supports Tottenham? :)

He wasn't good enough for us before, isn't good enough now and is currently struggling to get into Palace's team

We should be looking for someone on Reid's level, not someone who was behind Collins in the pecking order

I was just using Tonks as an example of someone spoken about positively by the selling team, that in reality won't be any good for the buying team - like Fonte. In all honesty, I'd rather Oxford and/or Burke than Fonte anyway.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby the pink palermo on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:36 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Southampton are being pressed for Van Dijk.

If he goes to Chelsea, Man U, Spurs, Everton - he'll be a roaring success.

If he goes to Liverpool, Arsenal or Man City - people will be asking why so much was spent on him.


7 clubs on your list .

Why wouldn't club 8 be of interest to him , and why isn't he of interest to us ?
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby wizzo_66 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:38 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
Why wouldn't club 8 be of interest to him , and why isn't he of interest to us ?


I'd offer £40 million, Jose Fonte, Snodgrass and Masuaku to Southampton, reckon they'd go for it?
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby steps on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:46 pm

Yes Fonte had a shocker on Saturday, and was at fault for two goals. But this is very typical West Ham. If you think back to this fixture last season, it was actually his debut game, he played well and the away crowd were in raptures of "Jose Fonte baby."

I think this was probably his worst game for us since we signed him. People will point to errors in certain games, but this one will really stick out. Like I say, it's so typical, just as it was Arnautovic getting sent off and Jese scoring the winner for Stoke against Arsenal.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby bubbles1966 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:46 pm

the pink palermo wrote:7 clubs on your list .

Why wouldn't club 8 be of interest to him , and why isn't he of interest to us ?


I was going to put us in the list - along with Arsenal, Liverpool, Man C - the teams who can't defend. No one is going to link him to us though.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby wizzo_66 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:49 pm

steps wrote: he played well and the away crowd were in raptures of "Jose Fonte baby."
.


He was at fault for their first last season which had the Southampton crowd singing that song.

It was sung in retort when we equalised/went ahead because it was funny.

He was "OK" that day, nothing more and the singing of his name was a dig at the Southampton fans more than an endorsement of him.
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Re: Jose Fonte Confirmed

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:52 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Southampton are being pressed for Van Dijk.

If he goes to Chelsea, Man U, Spurs, Everton - he'll be a roaring success.

If he goes to Liverpool, Arsenal or Man City - people will be asking why so much was spent on him.


A very good point

I doubt very much he will be interested in a move to Everton

I reckon he will end up at Man City, and be up for sale for half the price in a years time
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