Javier Hernandez Signs

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Crouchend_Hammer
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Why?
Kouyate and Cresswell at centre back offer absolutely nothing defensively. If fact they make us worse they are so bad
Bringing rice in to a Eric dier role and making sure rhe full backs do not over commit and we wouldn't be any more open than we are now

Against arsenal, Chelsea and Man city it wouldn't work but we can get the 7 or a ppints we need from the other games
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

Set up defensively away from home...play Hernandez. Have Burnley at home when you're desperate for 3 pts...bench Hernandez. He's been wasted during his time here. During the second half Arnautovic picked up ther ball and broke down the right hand side, not one person available in the box to look for. No good bringing Hernandez on at 2-0 down. He needs to start.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Fyodor »

Yea Why Not wrote:
Your argument? You mean the bit where you insisted he did alright last week as he played a couple of passes to an offside player? :lol:
Whereas you failed to mention anything of note that said offside player accomplished--other than getting himself in an offside position, of course.

Yet that player seemed to have somehow risen in your esteem after last week's match. Cemented his position as a non-negotiable starter.

Baffling.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Jumby »

Seven Premier League goals in 24 appearances, 16 starts, he's done pretty well.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Jumby wrote:Seven Premier League goals in 24 appearances, 16 starts, he's done pretty well.
It is actually 8. If he can get to 10 it would be a tremendous effort given the circumstances
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by mrbluesky »

You’d argue he’s our greatest ‘marquee’ signing in years (given the pedigree he arrived with), just leaves me scratching our heads that we’ve failed to get the best from him.

It’s a given Sully will flog him in Summer, then probably sign Rondon to replace him.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Colours never run »

I literally cannot wait for us to get rid of him after waiting so long for a natural fox in the box. Well, probably a little unkind on Sakho there but the fact he suffered from going AWOL meant he couldn't be relied upon in the end although he shares some of Hernandez genes in the box.

I'd build a side around these types of special players in their own right;

Hernandez
Arnautovic
Lanzini
Rice

That's what a talented spine to a team should look like, especially for a Club like ours. I'm absolutely desperate to keep them all for next season if we can somehow add to that genuine quality.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Jumby »

Hernandez is our 15 a season man, but he can't do it if he's sat on the bench.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Colours never run »

Jumby wrote:Hernandez is our 15 a season man, but he can't do it if he's sat on the bench.

Aye. He's be on 10 already if it weren't for a lick of paint hitting the woodwork a couple of times. Then there's the fact he isn't the designated penalty taker which flatters other Strikers more who are - not that I would dream of taking Noble off them. Considering the limited time on the pitch and chances created, he's done well in his first season with us in a struggling Club in many ways.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Al Fisti »

If you don´t play him, he can´t score - it´s that simple!!

As Moyes prefers a more defensive play, it´s not possible that a forward can shine every game, but Hernandez is a striker, who you don´t see 89 minutes, and then he scores.

I still wondering that this quality striker doesn´t get more minutes or isn´t in the starting 11 more often.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by thejackhammer »

We struggle when he starts because he can’t play alone upfront and we can’t afford to lose a body from our pedestrian midfield. He has looked his most dangerous off the bench, Stoke, Arsenal, Bournemouth, Chelsea.

Saying that, if we could strengthen the midfield I’d like to see him starting more next season, but at the moment he’s not a great fit.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

thejackhammer wrote:
Saying that, if we could strengthen the midfield I’d like to see him starting more next season, but at the moment he’s not a great fit.
To use the American vernacular we need to sign more offensive midfielders - at the moment we have Kouyate , Obiang , Noble , Fernandes , Cullen , and Mario playing largely defensive duties with only Lanzini and Masuaku as our offensive and even Masuaku started off as defensive - I realise Arnautovic was initially signed as a midfielder/winger type player but is now our only attacking threat bar Hernandez and the non playing Hugill - Carroll will be back shortly but I think he needs to go unless he's happy playing third or fourth fiddle .
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

thejackhammer wrote:We struggle when he starts because he can’t play alone upfront and we can’t afford to lose a body from our pedestrian midfield. He has looked his most dangerous off the bench, Stoke, Arsenal, Bournemouth, Chelsea.

Saying that, if we could strengthen the midfield I’d like to see him starting more next season, but at the moment he’s not a great fit.
It is a myth he cant play on his own upfront. he is actually pretty good at holding the ball up and spreading the play, as demonstrated in the first 30 seconds he came on against Bournemouth

He can play that role, and has down for Leverkusen

Like pretty much every striker in the world he can't play if no-one else is within forty yards of him

Play him up top with Arnie and Lanzini nearby and that is fine

Of course, buy a proper DM and the options become much greater, as we can then play with four at the back
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Colours never run »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
It is a myth he cant play on his own upfront. he is actually pretty good at holding the ball up and spreading the play, as demonstrated in the first 30 seconds he came on against Bournemouth

He can play that role, and has down for Leverkusen

Like pretty much every striker in the world he can't play if no-one else is within forty yards of him

Play him up top with Arnie and Lanzini nearby and that is fine

Of course, buy a proper DM and the options become much greater, as we can then play with four at the back
So true.

Out of morbid curiosity how many times have Lanzini, Arnautovic and Hernandez all started matches this season?
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by ChzMff »

I don’t know but the one I do remember is when we lost 3-0 at home to Brighton.

Arnaoutovic seems to being doing a pretty good job upfront on his own, despite rarely having team mates close by. He is far superior to Hernandez in that role due to his work rate, hold up play and physicality.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Jumby »

If we had Messi up front and punted balls up to him at head height to bring down, hold and up then wait an eternity for someone to get up there with him, he'd look s**t as well.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by goa127 »

Hernandez is capable of holding the ball up on his own, he just doesn't seem keen on doing it when he starts. When he comes on as sub he always wants to get on the ball. Away at spurs was an example. He failed to contribute very much for the hour he played allowing the ball to keep coming back at our defence again and again. When Ayew came on and held the ball successfully our midfield were able to push up 10 yards, which put Obiang in a position where he could launch his wonder strike. It's quite hard to figure why he often becomes such a periphical figure when he starts, and so dynamic from the bench.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Cockneyboy311 »

Jumby wrote:If we had Messi up front and punted balls up to him at head height to bring down, hold and up then wait an eternity for someone to get up there with him, he'd look s**t as well.
Indeed Jumby.


I think a fair few of us have said this half a dozen times. If you give the ball to him in the box 9/10 he will score, as he demonstrated yesterday (great vision by Arnie btw).

I'd be very sad to see him leave. We can't afford to let players like him go, but the lad wants to play so i can't begrudge him if he did want to go.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

goa127 wrote:Hernandez is capable of holding the ball up on his own, he just doesn't seem keen on doing it when he starts. When he comes on as sub he always wants to get on the ball. Away at spurs was an example. He failed to contribute very much for the hour he played allowing the ball to keep coming back at our defence again and again. When Ayew came on and held the ball successfully our midfield were able to push up 10 yards, which put Obiang in a position where he could launch his wonder strike. It's quite hard to figure why he often becomes such a periphical figure when he starts, and so dynamic from the bench.
Because when he comes on we are usually chasing a game and thus the rest of the players offer more support

He can hold up the ball if passed to feet, and then he has the opportunity to take a touch, spread the play and move into space (quickly)

He will not be able to hold a ball up if what is expected is to control a ball punted to his head and then keep hold of it for ten seconds whilst players get up to support him. Nor will he make lung bursting runs down the channels (a la Sakho). It is not a question of looking keen or not. That is just not his game, and would be a waste of energy

His game is based on quick passing to feet, and then making sure he is in the right place to receive a through ball, a cross/ cut-back from wide areas, or simply to pounce on mistakes or any indecision in the opposition box

of course, if we are never going to play a quick and dynamic style to suit him then we may as well get rid, but that would be a real shame and a failing of the club IMHO as his movement, finishing and poachers instinct is top drawer
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by MD_HM »

Jumby wrote:If we had Messi up front and punted balls up to him at head height to bring down, hold and up then wait an eternity for someone to get up there with him, he'd look s**t as well.
This is the problem, nothing to do with playing upfront on his own but the support.

Plenty of times Arnautovic was frustrated and isolated against Chelsea as a ball would be punted towards him and then no one was near him to support.

We should be looking at playing Hernandez, Arnautovic and Lanzini in the same team... those three linking up would be a joy to watch if on form.
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