Javier Hernandez Signs

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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby bubbles1966 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:59 am

Arnie's goalscoring record (and assists) in the year prior to the transfer stuff was stellar. We have effectively lost/not started our star striker for nearly three months now.

Hernandez is a support act. He's not the #1. As good as he is in the box, he is very hard to take to.

I think he's been less of an actor, less of problem this season and been more generally effective than last year up until the last couple of games where the handball and the dive have soured what felt like a redemptive season for him.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby hammer1975 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:23 am

Hernandez is a decent striker - I still don’t believe he’s the right fit for us (and probably be Premier League) though.

I also think he’s got a bit of credit this season over last for putting more effort in, and also as a sort of ‘anti-Arnautovic’ vote. His effort in a number of games last season was atrocious.

Hernandez and Arnautovic are pretty similar in my view as I believe both wanted a move - and both have put less than the required effort in on the pitch at times. Neither will be remembered in the way they could have been had they played 100% every game. Despite all that Arnautovic is much the better player for us and the pragmatist in me would much rather see Chicharito move on first.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby fmgod on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:46 am

Hernadez isn't suited to any team, it's why he has bounced around clubs and his finishing and instincts are not good enough alone to rely on, he isn't an ICardi or Jovic who can bang at the snap of a hat most weeks and score. He is a reasonable player but I think take away Madrid and Manchester United off his CV, bench player for both and most wouldn't bat an eyelid at him but because he is ex Madrid and Manchester people clamour for him and expect him to be good. He is a decent goalscorer that's about it, we're probably his level being blunt. Arnie showed what a striker a level can do and it was a world of difference,
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby steveyrockstar on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:38 am

He is a bit of a 'glamour Robert Earnshaw'
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby thejackhammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm

Arnautovic nor Hernandez are clinical enough. Which is why we so often draw a blank against teams, especially those that go a bit more defensive.

Hernandez - Who is supposedly this incredible finisher- needs 5 chances to grab a goal. And Arnautovic missed guilt edge chances against Wolves, Brighton and Arsenal off the top of my head.

16 teams have a higher goalscorer than Anderson who is our top.

Only Southampton, Huddersfield and Cardiff are worse off and look where they are in the league.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby fmgod on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:34 pm

Arnie is easily good enough for us, his all round game is so good, I think Aubameyang has missed the most good chances in the league stats wise. A fully fit firing Arnie is easily good enough to lead us week in week out.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Patito on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:38 pm

fmgod wrote: A fully fit firing Arnie is easily good enough to lead us week in week out.


Which is why it's so infuriating that he decided to go off on one halfway through the season.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby chigwells finest on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:54 pm

exactly

he derailed us in mid season
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby S-H on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:58 pm

chigwells finest wrote:exactly

he derailed us in mid season


Yes he did.

Unforgivable in my book, as we were ticking along nicely.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:05 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Arnie's goalscoring record (and assists) in the year prior to the transfer stuff was stellar. We have effectively lost/not started our star striker for nearly three months now.

Hernandez is a support act. He's not the #1. As good as he is in the box, he is very hard to take to.

I think he's been less of an actor, less of problem this season and been more generally effective than last year up until the last couple of games where the handball and the dive have soured what felt like a redemptive season for him.


Under Moyes where absolutely everything went through Arnoutovic his stats were very good.
Under Pellegini, where we play a more all-round game, his stats are ok
Even before his melt-down he was quite a fair way down the goals and stats combined list for this season

I like Hernandez and think he is a better all round player than he gets credit for, but he isn't the most reliable or consistent [or getting any younger] and It would be good if we could bring in a new undisputed number 9 in the summer
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby bubbles1966 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:17 pm

Arnie was on a goal/assist every 120 minutes or so up to that point where he got subbed in the cup. From early December 2017 until the first weekend in January 2019 he was unquestionably one of the best strikers in the league.

We've missed him hugely. The quality of our play has been pretty poor since the turn of the year. A couple of backs to the wall performances and some set piece goals have glossed over how ordinary we've frequently been, and we've been disastrous away from home.

We need to score 11 goals in the last 8 to have been as good going forward as Moyes/Bilic team was.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:20 pm

wilko

our strikers in general ain't good enough.....

I also understand that if they were brilliant, they wouldn't be with us.

I am in general lumping the whole team together.

we don't defend "as a team" good enough as evidenced by the goals against column and the fact that Fab makes the most saves in the league.

we don't create "enough chances" for us to score enough goals frequently enough to win games.

if we accept that we will lose to Citeh. the Bin Dippers, ManU, Chelsea et al AND either nick a point or three here and there (as we have always done) we have to be evaluated against those teams in and around us and those at the blunt end of the table

and we struggle against teams who either pack the defensive third and dare us to break them down, and or those who physically beat the crap out of us, either legally or not

maybe I didn't say that clear enough

we have huge holes that need filling

back up keeper
back up or starting RB
back up or starting LB
DM of some description - Sanchez - the jury is out
F either starting if Arnie stays or a back up dual striker


several players need to move on for one reasoon or another


Zaba ?
Arfur
Obiang
Perez
Carroll
Chicharito
Adrian

who knows what the hell is going on with Arnie

7 maybe 8 out

the incomings MUST address the positions of most need

I haven't touched on CB where 3 isn't enough and Reid won't have played in about 12-14 months

look at the midfield, top heavy

Noble
Antonio
Anderson
Snoddy
Obiang
Sanchez
Rice
Yarmolenko
Wilshere
Nasri
Lanzini

we're so unbalanced - we can raise money but letting go of several of those and stil have enough players or good enough players to get by."

that's not to say we couldn't use upgardes but we have far too many in that position(s) and only Anderson creative enough to break down teams - maybe Lanzini can fill the void


we have to find a way to keep more clean sheets and not have Fab be our best player (or thereabout) week in week out.

not if finishing 7th or thereabout, consistently enough enables us to keep and/or attract mid third level players


we saw what happened when Arnie's brother started off by saying he was too good to play in a relegation team year in year out - the Chinese debacle aside I would say Arnie's beginning of lack of goals and that started then. his brother had him second guessing his stay here and when the "Chinese Whispers" campaign arrived we fell off the tracks - I would say that we were already starting to wobble prior to then
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:20 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Arnie was on a goal/assist every 120 minutes or so up to that point where he got subbed in the cup. From early December 2017 until the first weekend in January 2019 he was unquestionably one of the best strikers in the league.

.


Those stats are skewed quite a lot by the half season under Moyes
He wasn't that effective under Pelligrini in the first half of this season. Not poor by any means, but not that great either
i think there was a table pasted in the Arnoutovic thread that showed this
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby bubbles1966 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Those stats are this season only.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Patito on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:28 pm

Even at the very start of the season where we lost 4 on the trot and generally looked poor, Arnie was still creating chances out of nothing.

He looked like a man possessed. Now he looks sluggish and disinterested.

Hernandez looks lightweight and disinterested.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby hammer1975 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:32 pm

I keep reading on loads of threads about how we’ll sell a load of our players to fund new incomings that are better. My observation is that we are continually and systematically over valuing those players, forgetting about associated agent costs etc and, most worryingly imo, not allowing for the fact that those players may well not go until right at the end of the window as the likely buyers will try to bargain for them as cheap as possible. As a result we won’t be able to bed in new players at best, at worst won’t be able to get the players we want at all.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:41 pm

hammer

probably the same as the January window when we could have let Chicharito and Obiang go - we couldn't find anyone to replace them of sufficient quality and the time needed to bed them in

the same will probably apply in the summer


we should (and hopefully are) on the verge of signing players the moent the season is over.

and letting those go who have no future here

fingers crossed
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:42 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Those stats are this season only.


My mistake. I thought you said from December 2017.
However, as i said on the Arnoutovic thread back in January, a goal and assist every two games isn't that good

puts him in a similar group as Rondon, Deeney, Deulefeo, Sigurdsson, Jota, Brooks etc
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby Absolutely Hammered! on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:58 pm

hammer1975 wrote:I keep reading on loads of threads about how we’ll sell a load of our players to fund new incomings that are better. My observation is that we are continually and systematically over valuing those players, forgetting about associated agent costs etc and, most worryingly imo, not allowing for the fact that those players may well not go until right at the end of the window as the likely buyers will try to bargain for them as cheap as possible. As a result we won’t be able to bed in new players at best, at worst won’t be able to get the players we want at all.


I tend to agree and I think we'll now be lucky to get 25m for Arnie assuming that there is any interest at all in the summer. Its a shame because an interested Arnie is the best striker outside of the top 6 and a part of me thinks we should give it another go with him if he shows he clearly wants to stay. Then on the flip side you have his mental and physical fragility plus his carpet salesman brother to contend with so its a tough one.
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Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Postby thejackhammer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 pm

I think we're all letting a period where he was the starman for Moyes cloud our judgement.

Arnie has a 1 in 4 record throughout his career, his best period came under Moyes where he was the only attacking player at times.

This season his goals have earnt us a point against Brighton.

7 goals, one was a penalty. His all round game makes him one of our better players but out and out striker he is not and never has been.
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