Diafra Sakho

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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:06 pm

mushy wrote:But do you have insight into anything different, or are you just saying that Pinky has it wrong in your view?


I do yes.

But even if I didn't, I'd still infer that Pinky is placing too much conviction into what he types, where his overconfidence in his beliefs occasionally overrules his objectivity.

It's not intended to be condescending to him, I've discussed the same with him before - he'll acknowledge this and hopefully appreciate where I come from - I have my many faults and my belief is that Pinks occasionally lets his heart rule his words at times when he's already pinned his flag to a post.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby the pink palermo on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:10 pm

Het-Field wrote:Easily. There was no official suggestion that Sakho would play, just a couple of media reports.

.

You haven't proved a thing .You're merely stating that there was no official suggestion .

Prove there wasn't .

To do so you would have to be privy to every conversation , which you aren't .

Therefore you're speculating .

My point being the dismissal of a post by , frankly, the same posters time after time on here as "speculation" to discredit the content of a post is at best tedious and at worst an attempt to stifle debate based on there being no "proof" , while at the same time offering the opposite view point , without offering any ......

Ask yourself why, after 2 lengthy lay offs Sakho , lazarus like, crawls off his deathbed to make an appearance in a high profile game at Old Trafford ?

He has hardly kicked a ball in months , we are not deep in a relegation battle nor are we a point away from qualifying for Europe , why would our Manager plonk him straight back into a matchday squad , fresh from missing part of if not all of the pre season tour , other than to stick him in the shop window for the Chairman ?

Furthermore, less than a year ago we had the nonsense with regards Payet , which dragged on for months , which the Chairman was clearly trying to keep quiet about as to go public would reduce any sale value , and Bilic eventually went public ......to suggest the Chairman leaves matters entirely in the hands of the Manager with regards who goes in a match day squad , particularly in a transfer window,is disingenuous .
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby mushy on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:20 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
i doubt Allardyce would be backwards in coming forwards in spilling the beans on the owners if they were that bad to work for

Allardyce knows full well that the Non-Disclosure agreement he signed precludes him from doing any such thing.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Het-Field on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:22 pm

the pink palermo wrote:

You haven't proved a thing .You're merely stating that there was no official suggestion .

Prove there wasn't ..


You cant prove something in the negative. It is a philosophical impossibility. However, what I can prove is that google returned a single link which speculated that he would head to Billiricay, which he did't. It did not return any official sources which claimed that Sakho would play, or was likely to play in the game. He didn't, and that is a further fact. I prefer to take official silence on the matter rather than any further speculation

The Payet matter is entirely different, and the story did become as clear as crystal after Christmas. Payet wanted to go home, and he was no longer willing to play for the Club. Bilic was upfront about that and Payet future was obviously over at West Ham.

Like I said, Sakho might be ready, and Sakho may not be ready. But we would have to take numerous leaps in order to believe that this was some sort of attempt at putting Sakho in the shop window. You didn't deal with the sales of Fletcher and Valencia as I raised earlier. And unlike Lazarus, Sakho was back on the treatment table within an hour of starting at Old Trafford. And the reason he would be picked at Old Trafford on Sunday is due to no others being available who has previous PL experience.

I don't think its disingenuous to suggest that the match day squad is not picked by Bilic. We generally accept that the purchase of players is a wider matter. However, we have no reason to believe otherwise in terms of the selection of the squad.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby the pink palermo on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:31 pm

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:It's not intended to be condescending to him, I've discussed the same with him before - he'll acknowledge this and hopefully appreciate where I come from - I have my many faults and my belief is that Pinks occasionally lets his heart rule his words at times when he's already pinned his flag to a post.

Not disputing too much of that Rars , I type what I believe to be true , and definitely do not type things I believe to be untrue .

With regards Sakho I've heard, from credible sources, all sorts of stuff , some of which I take at face value, some of which I am sceptical of , and it isn't as simple as saying I believe what supports my views and disregard those that don't .Nor would I suggest that people who tell me things are lying if they prove to be unfounded .I believe people comment and express their views in good faith .

I do also listen to those with a different view, Tross for example wrote an excellent post on this very thread just a couple of days ago , and his views are in my opinion always worth listening to . I might not necessarily agree with him on Sakho , but I wouldn't dismiss his views out of hand .

If history proves my views on Sakho to be incorrect I won't be eating humble pie as I'm posting my views based upon what I have seen with my own eyes and what I have been told , and am doing so in good faith.

My opinion on Sakho is his relationship with the Manager broke down a long time ago for all sorts of reasons , probably due to not being selected as first pick .My opinion is in an attempt to force a move he effectively goes on strike , but to ensure he gets paid he pulls the old back injury routine ........and it's sort of spiralled down from there with the Chairman shoving his beak in , probably telling the player he can't get a bid if he isn't playing ........so Sakho plays , and then gets ( properly) injured ...... the window shuts in the meantime .....so he goes on strike again , not wishing to play for Bilic .......and here we are , nearing the end of another window , and the escape hatch is still open fractionally , so .......he's "fit" .

Now wrapped up in all of that there will undoubtedly be all sorts of other things going on between the Manager player and Chairman , and his agent etc , lots of egos, lots of money at stake etc etc it's not a simple situation .

Anyway , Just wrote all that to prove your point . :D

As a player , I reckon Sakho is the best forward at the club by the way .Arrives on the penalty spot exactly when he should .
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby the pink palermo on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:35 pm

Het-Field wrote:You cant prove something in the negative..


Precisely , my point in a nutshell , and the fastest way to shut down a debate or dismiss or discredit a post on here is to demand proof, and if none can be provided, which is normal , the post is dismissed as "speculation" , "conjecture" or similar . .
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby wildkard on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:38 pm

I know for a 100% absolute fact that Sakho's back injury, at every point he was supposed to have one, was real. He had back problems from before he joined us as well.

Edit: obviously based on what my mate on the medical staff says. I haven't literally checked his back out myself.
Last edited by wildkard on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Het-Field on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:38 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
Precisely , my point in a nutshell , and the fastest way to shut down a debate or dismiss or discredit a post on here is to demand proof, and if none can be provided, which is normal , the post is dismissed as "speculation" , "conjecture" or similar . .


But it is speculation. And if it doesn't fit, certain claims just don't stand up to scrutiny. Its not about stifling debate. Facts and evidence are important. And if you conjecture something, people will question it and point out flaws in the conjecture. Such as the leap that Sakho is being put out front and centre in order to sell him.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Aztec Hammer on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:39 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
Precisely , my point in a nutshell , and the fastest way to shut down a debate or dismiss or discredit a post on here is to demand proof, and if none can be provided, which is normal , the post is dismissed as "speculation" , "conjecture" or similar . .


You did exactly this regarding Nordtveit going for a fee.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby the pink palermo on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:41 pm

wildkard wrote:I know for a 100% absolute fact that Sakho's back injury, at every point he was supposed to have one, was real. He had back problems from before he joined us as well.


And I'm sure getting in and out of his fancy sports car did it the world of good .
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby wildkard on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:45 pm

It's almost as if getting in and out of a car and playing a game of professional football would require different amounts of effort.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby hammer1975 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:50 pm

I was going to suggest that, history or not, it would seem odd to put someone on the bench who has had so little pre season game time......then I remembered how little the rest of the squad had actually broken into a sweat in pre season and decided it was probably ok.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby the pink palermo on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:55 pm

Aztec Hammer wrote:You did exactly this regarding Nordtveit going for a fee.

No, I didn't .What I did was state numerous times that I did not believe we got £5m or anything like it for him .That is not the same as simply dismissing a post as "speculation" .

One of the reasons I took that view was plain old common sense, backed up by three different numbers in 3 different outlets, one of which was transfermarket , which, from memory had it down as something like £2.3m .

I think I also made the point on at least one occasion that sometimes it suits all parties to quote a number that is inflated , but that I would wait until the accounts are published in 18 months time for confrmation either way .I know the info on Nordtveit came from an ITK on here , who I am sure posted in good faith .I simply have chosen not to believe that piece of information .At no time have I said he / she is talking cobblers .

In recent years we have seen posts on here which have tended to over egg the value of our players and under price other clubs , the sole exceptions being Randolph to Boro and Fletcher to the same place .I don't think anyone saw the Fletcher fee being that did they ?
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby bubbles1966 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:57 pm

I'd be surprised if this fella plays another minute for us.

Antonio is playing in PL2 on friday and will be back for Southampton and Newcastle.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:22 pm

mushy wrote:Allardyce knows full well that the Non-Disclosure agreement he signed precludes him from doing any such thing.


:lol:

yeah that would likely stop him if he was that pissed off! what are they going to do? sue him?
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby mushy on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:22 pm

wildkard wrote:I know for a 100% absolute fact that Sakho's back injury, at every point he was supposed to have one, was real. He had back problems from before he joined us as well.

Edit: obviously based on what my mate on the medical staff says. I haven't literally checked his back out myself.


And was it your mate that recommended an operation from the word go but his advice was ignored?
Can you also ask your mate what exactly is wrong with Carroll this time and why is it taking so long to get him fit again?
Cheers
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby mushy on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:27 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
yeah that would likely stop him if he was that pissed off! what are they going to do? sue him?

Yes.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:28 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
He has hardly kicked a ball in months , we are not deep in a relegation battle nor are we a point away from qualifying for Europe , why would our Manager plonk him straight back into a matchday squad , fresh from missing part of if not all of the pre season tour , other than to stick him in the shop window for the Chairman ?
.


Because we have no other options, and even at 80% fit he is better than anything else we have.

Of course Sullivan wants him in the shop window, but Bilic needs him on the bench as well
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Coops on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:29 pm

mushy wrote:
Can you also ask your mate what exactly is wrong with Carroll this time and why is it taking so long to get him fit again?
Cheers


My guess is that he has got something stuck up his nose.
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Re: Diafra Sakho

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:32 pm

mushy wrote:

Yes.


NDAs not worth the paper they are written on unless you can exactly specify what he would and wouldn't be allowed to disclose

Allardyce could quite easily say something like 'there was interference from other parties whilst I was manager' without saying what, or by whom, and no NDA will cover that

As I have said before, if Bilic's role was so untenable he should resign. He doesn't strike me as someone who would let himself get walked all over. He would easily walk into another job in European football
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