Zaza v Calleri

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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:20 am

Spanish league defending is piss poor? Not sure about that. It didn't work out for him here. It is working out there. On another day he coukd havr come in here and things worked out differently for him. Fine margins
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Nesticles on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:20 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Spanish league defending is piss poor?


Exactly

No idea what to make of defending in the Premiership if La Liga is poor
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Jumby on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:16 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Spanish league defending is piss poor?


Whilst I hear you, and partly agree with you, Messi and Ronaldo would not tear it up in the Prem to the extent that they tear it up over there, which I think goes some way to answering the question. Very few strikers that have torn it up in Spain have the same impact over here.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby SpongeBob's Pants on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Jumby wrote:Whilst I hear you, and partly agree with you, Messi and Ronaldo would not tear it up in the Prem to the extent that they tear it up over there, which I think goes some way to answering the question. Very few strikers that have torn it up in Spain have the same impact over here.


Just to counter that, they both have outstanding records in CL, which is against other nations, not just Spanish football. So they do it against all opposition.

To also counter your argument, the likes of Torres and Augero had good records in Spain, came here, and had even better scoring records (Torres initially with Liverpool i mean).

I dont think its as clear cut as you're making it out to be.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Jumby on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:40 pm

Knew this was coming, f**king knew it :lol:

Name 10 strikers who have torn it up in Spain either before or after playing in England, and torn it up in England to the same level. That's probably what I should have said, just to 100% cover myself.

Messi wouldn't hit 40 PL goals, it just wouldn't happen.

No team would win the PL with Mascherano at centre half.
Last edited by Up the Junction on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Multiple quotes removed.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby mushy on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Jumby wrote:Knew this was coming, f**king knew it :lol:



Jumby just knew what was coming.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Nesticles on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:57 pm

The quality of defending in the Premiership has been on the decrease for years, borderline atrocious at times

He might not get 40 goals but Messi wouldn't be far off

Looking at the teams that will be pushing close, or that have won it in recent years I would hedge a bet that Mascherano would be just fine as a CB in the Premiership title challenging side
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby SpongeBob's Pants on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:59 pm

Jumby wrote:Name 10 strikers who have torn it up in Spain either before or after playing in England, and torn it up in England to the same level. That's probably what I should have said, just to 100% cover myself.


There arent 10 strikers who have torn it up in Spain who have come across to the PL.I'd struggle to list even 5.

Spanish players (strikers especially) dont often come here.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby SpongeBob's Pants on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:05 pm

Jumby wrote:[

Messi wouldn't hit 40 PL goals, it just wouldn't happen.


My point isnt about Messi or Ronaldo. My point was about level of play/quality overall when you compare the two countries.

Messi probably wouldn't hit 40 in PL - you're right. Thats less to do with level of defending/quality, and more to do with the team he is part of. Messi has been with Barca since he was 13 or so. That team is built for him and around him. Plus, its been a wonderful team which has allowed him to express himself to the fullest. Its been one of the best club teams in memory.

He wouldn't get that team environment here, plus he'd have to adjust his style of play to fit PL football.

If Barca the whole team played in the PL, they'd rip all of us apart (over the last 5 years or so), and Messi would definitely hit the high high standards he has done over there.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby thejackhammer on Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:37 pm

Costa, Aguero, Torres, Morata, Van Nisteroy, Ibrahimovic, Suarez, Bale

Are all forwards who have done it iin both leagues.

There’s not many top level transfers that happen, but the truly top forwards who do move seem to do equally as well.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Claret&Blue,Thru& on Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:55 pm

Gary Lineker?
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby e-20 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:02 pm

SpongeBob's Pants wrote:
To also counter your argument, the likes of Torres and Augero had good records in Spain, came here, and had even better scoring records (Torres initially with Liverpool i mean).

I dont think its as clear cut as you're making it out to be.


Torres record here was actually for about a season and a half at the level we all apply to him for years. Overall it didn't last long for whatever reason can be conjured up for it. So jury very much out on him as an example.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby thejackhammer on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:15 pm

Torres has been pretty poor back in Spain. It’s not like he went back and became a world beater again.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Redkanpps dog on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:23 pm

thejackhammer wrote:Torres has been pretty poor back in Spain. It’s not like he went back and became a world beater again.


He doesn't really start does he and his competition is Griezman and Gameiro...
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Jumby on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:38 pm

SpongeBob's Pants wrote:There arent 10 strikers who have torn it up in Spain who have come across to the PL.I'd struggle to list even 5.

Spanish players (strikers especially) dont often come here.


Strikers/attackers that have torn it up, or done considerably better in Spain, before or after a spell in England, or both.

Roberto Soldado
Simone Zaza
Diego Forlan (I actually thought he was decent at Man Utd though)
Frederic Kanoute
Carlos Vela
Nolito
Iago Aspas
Giovani dos Santos
Xisco
Albert Luque

There's the first ten that came into my head.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Carlton'sGoal on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:47 pm

Jumby wrote:Iago Aspas


That's the real damning indictment, **** me he was poor for Liverpool.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby SpongeBob's Pants on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:20 pm

Jumby wrote:
Strikers/attackers that have torn it up, or done considerably better in Spain, before or after a spell in England, or both.

Roberto Soldado
Simone Zaza
Diego Forlan (I actually thought he was decent at Man Utd though)
Frederic Kanoute
Carlos Vela
Nolito
Iago Aspas
Giovani dos Santos
Xisco
Albert Luque

There's the first ten that came into my head.


Firstly, your concept of "tearing it up" and my concept are different as a lot of those on that list havent torn up anything. Not all, but a lot.

Secondly, most of those on the list hadn't been given enough time to bed into the Premier League. How many games have the likes of Vela or dos Santos played here? Its not a like for like comparison when they havent had a consistent run of games where you can say ok, he isnt producing.

Henry struggled and did nothing for the first 6 months here. Had he been sent packing, he would have been known as someone who couldnt do it in the PL?

From that list, the likes of Soldado, yes, you can start to make a claim for. But even him, after he went back to Spain, he didnt tear it up? So maybe its more to do with him, his decline in form/fitness/confidence rather than the league.

I'd love to know how many of the above you've listed were regular starters for at least one season in the PL, providing enough of a sample size of data to actually go on.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby SpongeBob's Pants on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:26 pm

Attackers who have done at least as well in England as Spain:

Augero
Sanchez
Ozil
Silva
Costa
Cazorla

Like i said, when we're talking about top talent, not many have made the jump here.

How many top talents can you list that have failed here? I'm talking about the best, not the mid/average players, who havent had a fair enough crack of the whip.
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Carlton'sGoal on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:32 pm

SpongeBob's Pants wrote:How many top talents can you list that have failed here? I'm talking about the best, not the mid/average players, who havent had a fair enough crack of the whip.


Di Maria?
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Re: Zaza v Calleri

Postby Jeffcoate321 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:35 pm

Shevchenko? (not la liga but definitely a top talent).

I thought Di Maria was ok over here but circumstances surrounding his personal life and the state of Man Utd at the time hindered him.

I reckon at another time he would've been class
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