England Squad

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Re: England Squad

Postby Samba on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:17 pm

James P wrote:I put far more blame for 2002 on Seaman.


I said solely down to DB, but you're quite correct James, it wasn't just him.
I also agree with the other recent posts.

The trouble with England is...
No, I'm not gonna put it down to one thing. It's many things, imo.
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Re: England Squad

Postby Beavis Danzig on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:34 pm

i don't think you can put it at the door of grass roots youth development. we usually give a decent showing at the younger age groups (our under 17s are the best in europe as it is), it's what happens next in their development that's the problem.
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Re: England Squad

Postby Believer on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:49 pm

Beavis Danzig wrote:i don't think you can put it at the door of grass roots youth development. we usually give a decent showing at the younger age groups (our under 17s are the best in europe as it is), it's what happens next in their development that's the problem.


Spot on. Unfortunately the chase of the dollar means that very few clubs take a risk with young English talent. It's easier to go for a young foreigner who has dazzled for a few months in a foreign league somewhere. The other issue is that when a good un does make the breakthrough, he is hyped beyond belief and then when he doesn't single handedly win the Euros or the World Cup, is slaughtered by fans and press alike.

The standard did a good article tonight about Southgate. He had an opportunity last night to keep the shape that had been used throughout the qualifiers but to experiment with lesser players in the positions of the first team regulars. However he chose to blood some others but in a totally different system ! What was the point in that ? Do the Germans do that ? No, they have a system and every player regardless of age gets slotted into that system. Even your Slovenias and Slovakias have a system.

Considering the amount of money in the FA, there should be a better more proven manager than Southgate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is useless but he should be nowhere near the managers position.
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Re: England Squad

Postby bubbles500 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:56 pm

You can’t deny what our youth teams are currently doing.Also find it quite interesting that 75% of our youth teams players are now black or mixed race.I think we are starting to see the first real generation of kids who’s parents are British and savvy with how youth football works.Going forward it must be to our advantage to have such a multicultural society.Its almost like we now have a gene pool that covers the whole world.Im sure if you looked at youth teams 20 years ago you’d be lucky to find 1 or 2 black players.Now all our brightest prospects are black or mixed race probaly Apart from Foden.The likes of sancho gomes hudson nelson Sessegnon edwards Abraham .Honestly believe in 4or 5 years we will have a great national team.Theres just too much talent for it all to be wasted.
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Re: England Squad

Postby Colours never run on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:41 pm

Where I think we've suffered badly for years is the closure of Lilleshall and there being a vacuum for a good decade or so without a Centre of excellence for young players to grow up with strong values in the game instilling running themes such as Discipline, professionalism, strong patriotism, honing the right kind of mentality and respect for the shirt, as well as refining their skills. Teams will tend to do best when there's a footballing philosophy and continued messages that stay ingrained on the players psyches. I felt it showed how much we lacked that and I think it's of no coincidence the players coming through now are doing so well with a real sense of team togetherness and looking the part in every way at International level.

We enjoyed successes for years prior to the closure with the likes of Defoe, Joe Cole etc being one of the last to come through the process. When I look at successes around Europe, it shows at say France with Clairfontaine.

Now St George's Park, which is 1 of the best set ups around is finally bedding in, I think we are now bearing the fruits of our labour and the continuity of excellence is thriving again helping to refine a lot of genuine talent and the results shouldn't be too much of a surprise. Hopefully all the youths experiences at International level will travel through in to the senior side and I think that's beginning to happen.
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Re: England Squad

Postby Jon on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:56 pm

I believe in 2010 31 of 32 teams were seeded to qualify.


If that is the case then does it not show that the seedings were bang on?

Bill - absolutely and that's the problem. It's a closed shop. We're destined to qualify (most times) thanks to a generous seeding. The other home nations must exceed their seeding to have any chance. We never have to.

Take Celtic and their group of death. PSG, Bayern and Anderlecht. Celtic are there to make up the numbers.

Give them an open draw and them have a chance. Ireland are jumping this morning but even the play offs are seeded and they may have to face Portugal or Italy!!
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Re: England Squad

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 pm

Jon wrote:I believe in 2010 31 of 32 teams were seeded to qualify.


If that is the case then does it not show that the seedings were bang on?

Bill - absolutely and that's the problem. It's a closed shop. We're destined to qualify (most times) thanks to a generous seeding. The other home nations must exceed their seeding to have any chance. We never have to


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... world-cup/


Wales currently seeded 13th in the World rankings while England are 15th - can't have that can we ? :)
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Re: England Squad

Postby simon hammer on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:25 pm

fmgod wrote:There should be a can in there but you've taken the words massively, if not ridiculously out of context if you read the full sentence/paragraph.


I would definitely agree with that...we 'can' go far in tournaments, but the same can be said of many nations. Whether we 'will' go far in tournaments is another thing altogether.
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Re: England Squad

Postby bubbles500 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:33 pm

Jon wrote:I believe in 2010 31 of 32 teams were seeded to qualify.


If that is the case then does it not show that the seedings were bang on?

Bill - absolutely and that's the problem. It's a closed shop. We're destined to qualify (most times) thanks to a generous seeding. The other home nations must exceed their seeding to have any chance. We never have to.

Take Celtic and their group of death. PSG, Bayern and Anderlecht. Celtic are there to make up the numbers.

Give them an open draw and them have a chance. Ireland are jumping this morning but even the play offs are seeded and they may have to face Portugal or Italy!!


Seedlings generally pan out.If you look at the 4 best 2nd place teams,they are the 4 seeds.Its clearly not a closed shop as Wales showed in euros and Iceland showed by qualifying.Theres Just no other way to do it.Having Germany Spain England Italy in one group would be ridiculous.
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Re: England Squad

Postby James P on Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:53 pm

I think seeding the play offs is unnecessary to be honest. The groups were seeded in the fast place. If a top seed fell to second in their group they should be protected. If a third or fourth seed climbed to second, they shouldn't be disadvantaged.

Initial group seeding is important though.
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Re: England Squad

Postby Jon on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:03 pm

Iceland were seeded to come second in their group after their EURO success. They came second on GD.

The seeding is to ensure all the big name teams qualify. It's very hard to exceed your seeding but it can happen.

Wales were seeded to win their group, RoI to come third. They came second. Serbia are ranked 32 in the world which was clearly false and they won the group.

Scotland seeded 3rd, came 4th

As TOMOS 's link indicates, the way friendlies are managed can help you get a good seeding and then that helps qualifying.
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Re: England Squad

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:11 pm

Jon wrote:
Wales were seeded to win their group, RoI to come third. They came second. Serbia are ranked 32 in the world which was clearly false and they won the group.



As TOMOS 's link indicates, the way friendlies are managed can help you get a good seeding and then that helps qualifying.


Wales were ranked 116th in March 2011 and while they may be 13th just now they're still a bunch of average players with one very good [ Allen ] and two excellent [ Bale and Ramsey ] in their squad , other than the latter two which of their squad would make England's ? None .
We've punched above or weight for quite a while now , we had never beaten Georgia up until a few days ago , team spirit got us to the semi finals of the Euros - we'd have beaten the Republic with another week's rest and Bale in the team but Georgia took a lot out of what are a bunch of quite average players , a pity really as it would have done my small country the power of good to have been part of the World Cup in 2018 .
We won't keep this up and we'll be back down the pecking order before too long .
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Re: England Squad

Postby e17 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:24 pm

Glad to see Netherlands not qualify tonight as I have an irrational seething hatred for Arlen Robben

Wish Portugal had gone with them. Hope the Argies fail too.
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Re: England Squad

Postby bubbles500 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:24 pm

Yeah not really sure why England are choosing such hard friendlies every game.Should really mix it up with some easier games.Considering we have the longest winning streak in qualifiers it must be our friendly losses that leave us ranked 15th.If we have another poor tournament and friendly losses .We could easily end up outside the top 20 come the 2020 Euro draw.
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Re: England Squad

Postby DasNutNock on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:30 pm

You can drop down the rankings when you win games. It's because the FIFA ranking system is complete balls. Plenty of nations pay the system and prosper from it, gaining seeding advantages by not playing games. Obviously, the FA prioritises revenue and arranges as many friendlies as possible.
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Re: England Squad

Postby ironsjh on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:23 pm

Friendly matches aren't worth anywhere near as much as competitive matches. Points gained from friendlies remain the same but are multiplied by 2.5 for qualifiers, three for continental championships and confederations cup but 4 for World Cup matches, it's why Brazil were way down in 2014, no competitive fixtures since 2011
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Re: England Squad

Postby trevshead10may1980 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:23 am

Sad to see the Dutch go out, I lived in Holland for 10 years, love the country and its people. Also sad to see the Argies go through, never forgiven them for 1986. So happy to see the yanks knocked out Football is treated like a 4th class sport here, the majority of the population know nothing about and couldn't care less about it. They cant even call the world's no 1 sport by its proper name. Good riddance.
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Re: England Squad

Postby Puff Daddy on Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:04 am

We could see Catalonia in the 2022 World cup finals
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Re: England Squad

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:48 am

Until English players move to play abroad, either as youngsters or when more established, we won't over achieve
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Re: England Squad

Postby bubbles500 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:07 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Until English players move to play abroad, either as youngsters or when more established, we won't over achieve


If Jadon Sancho gets games for Dortmund and does anything of significance wouldn’t be surprised to see a Walcott style last minute call up.He will be 18 3 mnths so not crazy young.Not sure how old Rooney was but couldnt have been much older.If we were 0-0 again with Iceland with 20 mins left I’d much rather have him on bench than drudge vardy Ox lingard.Magic Little player that does special things.
Rooney was 17 317 days.Thats really difference between now and 15 years ago.The likes of sancho gomes hudson edwards would have got 1st team PL minutes this season at 17/18 and one would probably have made the plane.
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