West Ham Utd 0-3 Brighton & Hove Albion (20/10/17)

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Cellar-door
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Cellar-door »

HammerInMaryland wrote:
Really? All I have ever heard is how great Chicarito is in finding space. Maybe he is not getting service, maybe tactics are not good.
Yeah, he's great at finding spaces, and has been successful at it everywhere he's gone at the club level and internationally with Mexico. What he needs is someone he can combine with who gets him the ball in that space.

He won't beat players one v one, and heaving in crosses over his head is useless. If we had someone else who could play on the floor with him, he'd be much more successful.

He keeps setting up give and go situations where he gives and the player he gives to either is dispossessed, back passes, or swings wide and lofts in a cross. Tonight Lanzini or Arnautovic should have been that partner, but Lanzini kept being dragged back to go get the ball so Chcicharito is getting the pass from him 30 yards from goal, which is a waste, and Arnautovic just wanted to dribble down the line and shank in bad crosses.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Gsbgsb »

Tonight was a new low for recent seasons.

Yes City, Arsenal, Liverpool have all scored more but this was Brighton. To not compete against Brighton is criminal. They were organised, fit, committed - all things apparently beyond us. It is not acceptable for our players to pass simply for passing’s sake then when it breaks down stand and watch the opposition run past them as happened far too often this evening.

I fail to see what tactic Bilic has to break down an organised defence if AC is not available to pump long balls at. They were always going to sit in with numbers behind the ball and for the second home game on the spin we looked clueless as to how to deal with this other than hopeful crosses which tonight were hopeless without AC to get on the end of them or at least pressure the centre halves. Hernandez tonight was as anonymous as anything Zaza managed. Yes long balls into the box are not what he wants but to look as if he might try to either win one or offer a different option would help.

A home bench that features a centre half, 2 full backs and only one real attacking player beggars belief.

I have thought for a long time that Bilic has been living on his personality as opposed to his ability and that the cock-ups by the board have leant him a certain credibility, a “not his fault” or “we are all in this together with him” get out of jail free card. That has to end, failing to get a new manager now will be as bigger error by the board as their recent transfer screw ups.

I cannot say who, I do not watch a lot of European stuff, I knew little about Marco Silva before he arrived at Hull yet he has managed to put together 2 organised, disciplined teams in less than a year. Someone must be out there who can get the basics right to start with.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by IronworksDave »

Cellar-door wrote: Really? All I have ever heard is how great Chicarito is in finding space. Maybe he is not getting service, maybe tactics are not good.

Yeah, he's great at finding spaces, and has been successful at it everywhere he's gone at the club level and internationally with Mexico. What he needs is someone he can combine with who gets him the ball in that space.

He won't beat players one v one, and heaving in crosses over his head is useless. If we had someone else who could play on the floor with him, he'd be much more successful.

He keeps setting up give and go situations where he gives and the player he gives to either is dispossessed, back passes, or swings wide and lofts in a cross. Tonight Lanzini or Arnautovic should have been that partner, but Lanzini kept being dragged back to go get the ball so Chcicharito is getting the pass from him 30 yards from goal, which is a waste, and Arnautovic just wanted to dribble down the line and shank in bad crosses.
Hmmmm .... for a guy who makes so much space how come he touched the ball just 23 times and with 35% of those touches he gave the ball away ....

If that's considered good 'setting up' then we're in deep ***** ... if he's the main outlet for the midfield he needs 50+ touches a game not 23 ....

You can argue the rest of the players can't pass but if that's true then there's no point playing Chico you might as well just lump it up to Carroll ....

and this isn't a one-off either ... against Spuds he had just 18 touches with 46% given away ....

If Chico is the answer then we're playing the wrong game ...... and that's Bilic's fault ....
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by DDHammer »

Masuaku has some ridiculous passing stats, best in the team last season with 90%, he's on 93% so far this year, we really should have been looking to give him the ball out wide tonight.

So many times he was hugging the line with no one within 10 yards of him but wasn't spotted.

Slip it out to him, let him run into space and ping it in to Hernandez, that's what we need to do, get the ball to Hernandez it the box and he'll bury it.

I'd bring Noble back in for Kouyate, put Masuaku LW and play Cresswell behind.
Last edited by DDHammer on Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Colours never run »

Hernandez is and always be the answer up front. If it isn't working, it's because of others not being up to his standard, not because he's the problem in the team.

If he's lacking touches, it's because his team mates fail to find him, not because he can't make it stick. His movement in the final third is one of the best in the business, it's right up there and I feel sorry watching him having to put up with dross served up to him. Ping it right, thsn you get moves involving him like at Burnley but once isn't good enough, he needs constant service and not mainly flying in the air out wide aimed at his tiny little head.

Arnautovic, Lanzini and Antonio have to seriously up there games as all 3 have been piss poor at worst or just above average at best which is aimed mainly at Antonio. Can't say the other 2 so far this season have done anything to write home about and it's simply not good enough.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Colours never run »

DDHammer wrote:Masuaku has some ridiculous passing stats, best in the team last season with 90%, he's on 93% so far this year, we really should have been looking to give him the ball out wide tonight.

So many times he was hugging the line with no one within 10 yards of him but wasn't spotted.

Slip it out to him, let him run into space and ping it in to Hernandez, that's what we need to do, get the ball to Hernandez it the box and he'll bury it.

I'd bring Noble back in for Kouyate, put Masuaku LW and play Cresswell behind.

Only if they're the type of cultured daisy cutting crosses coming in low like he did for Sakhos winner, as the balls in the air aimed at Hernandez would mostly be a waste of time. We pumped the ball in countless times today yet Hernandez struggled getting in the end of nearly every one. Its not his game unless it's whipped in low which also keeps the ball alive if it doesn't reach him and panic the defence having to deal with a low cross where the Keeper and defence are uncertain how to deal with it.

The other thing about it is Masuaku or ideally Arnautovic, as that one of the reasons why he's in the side is to run towards the by line bearing their full back before whipping it low past them unable to block. Not hesitate, think about it then take the easy option and look to cut it back for say Lanzini all the time hoping he'd deal with it instead once all their defenders are set with tike to deal with Hernandez and then the ball coming in to the box predictably. Its not rocket science but f*** me is it being made to look extremely hard work at the moment. Either Bilic is struggling getting those kind of messages across to his players or worse he's not even suggesting them and is asking them to play with so much caution but I doubt that to be honest as he's usually gun ho and encourages players to play exciting football. I can only put it down to poor communication or understanding from a few div players we seem to have on our books. Decision making has been shocking for the most part this season.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by IanBishopLegend7 »

I thought we played the best football I have seen for a very long time (for about 15 mins, after their goal).

The players showed they really have it in them, but I don't think anyone is really happy right now. In Bilics first season it would have been a comeback special. These days it's just sad to watch the motivation go from average then poor to abismal.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by DDHammer »

Colours never run wrote: Arnautovic, Lanzini and Antonio have to seriously up there games as all 3 have been piss poor at worst or just above average at best which is aimed mainly at Antonio. Can't say the other 2 so far this season have done anything to write home about and it's simply not good enough.
I'm starting to get the feeling we massively overate our players, purely because we rarely even see a bid for them.

We seem to be the only team who struggles to dominate the ball in the opponents half, the whole reason we wanted a striker is because we kept watching them missing sitters, we finally sign one of the best box goalscorers in Europe and can barely even get him on the ball in the box. I don't care if Antonio skins his man 10 times a game, i want him to do something with it after that, for someone who runs down the line so often and beats players, he should have loads more assists.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Morocco Mole »

Chicharito is Michael Owen or Robbie Fowler....Ian Rush, John Aldridge even (What is it about Scouse forwards?). An exceptional finisher with great technique and composure but put him in a mediocre team lacking creativity then there's not much else to work with. We don't create enough for the type of player he is. He tries though bless him... :thup:
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by jevs »

So that was my first visit to the London stadium. The Mrs bought the tickets as part of an early Xmas pressie so we got the train up and stayed overnight in a hotel. After everything included, there isn’t much change out of £500.

To say that was one of the worst WHU performances I’ve seen might be a bit knee jerk but I’m not sure. I stood there yesterday wondering where we were going. The team had no backbone, no fight and worse of all, no idea.

I have never bood any team off the pitch....until last night. They deserved everything they got. Billic has to go now, in fact I’m surprised he’s still there this morning.

So happy Christmas West Ham, enjoy you sickeningly over inflated pay cheque and have a nice weekend in your mansions, I’m off to lie down in a dark corner somewhere.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by e17 »

ballantine wrote:5 at the back, Carroll and Noble may make us look boring and unadventurous. But **** me, i'll take that over this any day of the week.
Hernandez is our new shiny signing who scored a lot at Man U, so he’s been running on reputation and optimism. But f*** it, personally that’s the third time I’ve thought Sakho would have offered more in front of goal.

Not all his fault as delivery is poor.. but looks like a player who’s become devoured by the rubbish being delivered almost as much as the crowd has
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Puff Daddy »

Eureka !!!!! I've got it......... That was the West Ham way
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Coops »

Brighton were very well drilled defensively and fair play to them for that. But that is what you are going to get in the Premier League. We don't seem to know how to unlock a defence, I see it every week. We also seem to want to take an extra touch in the box all of the time.
We had a lot of time with the ball and were knocking on the door at 0-1 but without really looking like scoring. I think I can remember Brighton having 3 attacks in the first half, Hart made a great save for one of them, they scored from the other 2.

The second half was dire. We should have come out with fight. But the players seemed to give up.
There is no movement, nobody running into space. We make it easy for opposition to defend against us, while our own defence is leaking goals.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Skandi Brudson »

Coops wrote:.........The second half was dire. We should have come out with fight. But the players seemed to give up.
There is no movement, nobody running into space. We make it easy for opposition to defend against us, while our own defence is leaking goals.
Lost count of how many times I said that to myself during the match. And what’s with the big gap between the lines?
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by nobby123 »

After watching 45 mins of pure crap i walked out and got a early train theres been many lows over the years but that last night is beyond me,at best at the moment we are the best pub team in stratford, theres some thing not right over there the players don't look interested or even fit this down to slav I'm afraid his time is up as well as the three clowns at the top just look at the players we got in the only one i will go with is zab

ayew
amautovic
fonte
hart
just aint good enough poor rice makes one mistake and don't get a look in,i don't mind if we lose if we put up a fight but last night there was nothing
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by eastsider »

We were Cack no doubts.
But I think we also have to give credit to Brighton?!
All I know is if I went to an away game and got that performance and result I would be delighted.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Gsbgsb »

IanBishopLegend7 wrote:I thought we played the best football I have seen for a very long time (for about 15 mins, after their goal).

The players showed they really have it in them, but I don't think anyone is really happy right now. In Bilics first season it would have been a comeback special. These days it's just sad to watch the motivation go from average then poor to abismal.
And we failed to get one decent effort on target or make their keeper produce a meaningful save. Pretty football maybe but totally ineffectual and therefore useless. The game is not about possession or looking pretty it is about scoring goals and making chances we did neither all night given the usual means of creating a “chance” was to aimlessly cross a ball to a striker who did not and never was going to win a header.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

IanBishopLegend7 wrote:I thought we played the best football I have seen for a very long time (for about 15 mins, after their goal).

The players showed they really have it in them, but I don't think anyone is really happy right now. In Bilics first season it would have been a comeback special. These days it's just sad to watch the motivation go from average then poor to abismal.
There was a period where we did indeed look coherent and threatening, as a team, as we moved the ball around nicely. However, with hindsight, two additional factors emerged

1. Brighton retreated to create a defensive shield, and
2. Even if we were dominant, we didn't consistently work their keeper.

The revelation is one many have already posted: Brighton had a game plan, had fit and capable players and deserved their comprehensive victory.

Looking at our team in the cold light of the morning:

1. The best thing people seem now prepared to say about Hart is that he is 'better than Randolph'. His attempt saving their first goal was poor (the 'saving arm' was pointing in the wrong direction!). That's 17 goals in 9 games now. He also started to get sloppy yesterday. I watched in the pub. A wag called out 'England's number one!' when he kicked the ball out under no pressure at all.

2. Despite playing well up the pitch, Zabaleta has now conceded 2 penalties in 9 games. He does however show drive and doesn't respond to the ball as if its made out of something radioactive.

3. The CB partnership are not terrible, but they share the blame for our generally porous defence. Glenn Murray is 34 years old. He took the piss last night.

4. Masuaku deserves a place in the team, but he should be further up the pitch

All of the above means that our defence is ripe for attack, even by promoted teams, playing away. They bided their time and took their chances well.

5. Kou and Obiang appear on paper to have the industry and craft to be a useful centre-mid partnership, but, as per, there are niggling question marks over precisely how good they are (and how well they will stand up to other teams set up in the same way). Yesterday, Obiang unwittingly nudged the ball sweetly into the path of the player to score their second, but also executed a perfectly timed tackle in our penalty area too. Some of his passing was a little wayward, but, again, despite the runner being offside, threaded an almost perfect ball between their CBs for what would have been an open goal.

6. Arnautovic doesn't come across as new or slow to adapt to our team. He has a facial expression that suggests that this is the first time he's ever seen the other lads with a football at their feet. He's an expensive misfit. Its not my money, etc, but who on earth thought he'd improve our team? He's clearly skilful, but that's not enough.

7. Lanzini huffed and puffed and had a few moments. The problem is that everyone seems to look to pass to him wherever they are, simply to get the spotlight off themselves. He dropped ever deeper yesterday; a risky tactic.

8. Antonio had a reasonable match. I am pretty sure that when he went down and needed treatment, he spewed up something. That explained why he was holding his chest when the opponent tackled his legs. His ball control was better than normal, but Hughton and his team had done their homework. Like other decent players, there was no proper connectivity with other team-mates. Zabaleta in an advanced position and Iron Mike might prosper, but it leaves a gaping hole behind them.

9. Hernandez is becoming a bit of an enigma. He's clearly a capable goal poacher, but, yesterday, he was pretty much marked out of the game, by a promoted side.

In conclusion, in terms of our 4 major signings none has clearly improved a team that just about deserved to stay up last season. The tactics are charitably described as basic and hopeful. Clean sheets will be a rarity.

We need a fairly major shake up to avoid the lottery of the league place that is dependent on how bad other teams around us turn out to be.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by Hockley Hammer »

It's something when despite your own team being a shower of crap you go home jealous that a very average opposition are everything you wish your team would be.
Organised, committed and disciplined.
Teams need to just stay organised for long enough for us to make the inevitable defensive lapse, capitalise on it and then it is pretty comfortable for them.
I'd pick Noble and Carroll every time if last night is an example of our new best X1.
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Re: West Ham United v Brighton and Hove Albion match thread

Post by asters89 »

I think there's got to be something seriously wrong with our training and match preparation.

Given the injury to Sakho, the line up was more or less what we were hoping for but we looked so disjointed and impotent in attack and incompetent in defence. We looked like a team who we still playing to the Andy Carroll game plan but without any of the physical presence.

Something is definitely awry at Chadwell Heath.
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