Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby woodford on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:33 pm

libero wrote:
We stay up, he re-establishes his tarnished reputation and both sides move on after thanking him for a good job done



and then begin wading through the mass of high quality managers itching for the "sully experience" ?
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Harry Hound on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:48 pm

OnePaulHilton wrote:You two must spend your whole life puzzled coming out with crap like that. So we would have had 18 or 20 points without Moyes.
I am not slagging off Moyes by the way.


IMO under Bilic we'd be certain for relegation and probably have around 20 points like West Brom (and that's being generous). We were a total shower of by the time Slav left with no discipline, no organisation, no fitness and no motivation. Moyes has steadied the squad has got Arnautovic playing his best football since he arrived in England, Antonio has been given a rollicking and seemed to play better for it and all the squad look fit and motivated. It can't be easy working for Sullivan and Brady but Moyes appears to be handling the politics and the off-field circus that is WHU pretty well and has done exceptionally well when facing the press.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby OnePaulHilton on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:26 pm

[quote="Harry Hound"]

IMO under Bilic we'd be certain for relegation and probably have around 20 points like West Brom (and that's being generous).

And in my opinion we would have had 33 points. Isn't it funny how people can have such different opinions.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Rays Rock on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:13 am

We had 33 points at this stage last season.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Colours never run on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:46 am

All the evidence pointed to Bilic keeping us up as he did for us 2 season's running and still with 3 quarters of the season left in this one only just dipping into the bottom 3 barely adrift from no one with the time for the likes of Hernandez and Arnautovic to settle in more. And we were still going strong in the League Cup so we weren't in an utterly dire situation with inevitable relegation pending. It was anything but.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Simply Moore on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:55 am

Obviously no one knows what would have happened under Bilic but if I was given the opportunity to go back to the day he left the club and have him carry on or indeed stay where we are right now, I’d actually stay where we are now. For me as lovely as a guy as he is, he was a broken man towards the end of his tenure, we looked disorganised and void of ideas and I couldn’t see anything other than relegation beckoning.

Sometimes people need a break, I’m sure he will come back stronger.

As for Moyes, the way he is talking lately, it sounds to me as though he is here a lot longer than just the end of the season and after being completely underwhelmed by his appointment initially, I would actually be pleased to see him given a contract.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby goa127 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:54 am

I have to say I couldn't see where our next win was coming from under bilic. We didn't get a 'new manager bounce' either when moyes came in, we only started improving after a few weeks when his methods and ideas, (whatever they are) started to have an effect.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby westlondonhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:05 am

Colours never run wrote:All the evidence pointed to Bilic keeping us up


Which evidence is this?
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Colours never run on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:42 am

westlondonhammer wrote:
Which evidence is this?



This season was mirroring what he did in the previous season and ended up comfortably away from danger come the end of the season, as he proved in his first one too. And he did it whilst doing well in at least 1 of the Cups so we weren't a hopeless case not able to play or win games that mattered. He won countless big games that mattered during his time as manager and I had little reason to believe he couldn't keep us up as a bear minimum based on all that evidence as I previously stated. A manager who had to put up with the first 4 games away playing catch up before we even really got started, as well as other things out of his control like the sendings off to key players, not to mention having to manage half the games this season under the pressure he's only got 1 more game to save his job from 1 loss to the other. And having done it all under intense pressure to deliver in the 2 season's prior, I think that's sufficient evidence to feel confident he'd do it again if given the chance as before.

It would be far harder to prove we were a lost cause destined for the Championship whilst he was still manager than staying up. I just don't buy in to the same logic as Sullivan would trap off about he had no more life in him. The poor ***** always looked and sounded half dead but he always delivered in the end and I for one was never in doubt we'd at the very least survive enjoying the odd decent Cup run along the way.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Harry Hound on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:54 am

It’s pointless arguing over what Bilic may have done as it’s all conjecture. The team looked totally demoralized when he left and his luck seemed to have run out. It was time for him to go and Moyes has done an exceptional job considering how we looked when he took over.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:00 am

As Simply Moore rightly says, Bilic was a broken man by the end. That has to be factored in so sadly it’s not as simple as saying “he got us out of it before he would have got us out if it again”. Broken men don’t tend to perform as well as those who are merely in the process of being worn down, unsupported but haven't yet been ptotally cracked.

Not Bilic’s fault he was broken by the way. The same fate awaits most managers who come here, Moyes included.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Colours never run on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:14 am

People were saying he looked like a broken man last season under similar circumstances with those questioning whether he should go after a poor start, yet it proved to inaccurate as he finished the season well as well as get us to the Quarters like this season. So I can't buy into the broken man argument either and nor could Bilic who took issue with it when asked about how he looked on the touchline in a recent interview. The perception wasn't the truth and he had plenty more to give even if others had given up on him as our manager. But each to their own.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:44 am

CNR - whilst I do agree that Bilic probably woukd have kept us up, (and i would have kept him) it was 3 away games not 4 (I know you like to include the League Cup game for effect!)

Whilst alwqys having to play our first game away is seriously annoying and far from ideal moving forward, other clubs would also have had 2 of 3 league games away (and maybe an away cup fixture). Apart from Man u the other two games were against other teams now struggling so it wasn't that difficult a start to the season in hindsight.

Completely off topic
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Rays Rock on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:57 am

Rays Rock wrote:We had 33 points at this stage last season.


Our progress last season pretty much mirrors this with a poor start only gaining 12 points for the first 12 (this season 9), followed by a brilliant run to 33 points of gaining 31 pts up to this point 33 and 30 respectively.

For me it was what followed that got Bilic the sack. 12 points gained to the end of last season, which included a soft win over a relieved burnley on the last day of the season, then followed by a worse start to the next season. 21 pts from 25. Yes we can throw all the excuses at that statistic, but there are plenty of home games thrown in to adjust that stat. That was certain relegation form from a sample field of results greater than 1/2 a season.
The biggest shame for me is that, he found a way of setting up a 3 / 5 man defence and not capitulating, but then kept on reverting back to a tactic that made us weaker at the back and didn't make us more attacking or score us any more goals. In effect he shot himself in the foot.
I liked Slav a lot, but he needed letting go, maybe just for his own health. There was nothing that anybody could hand on heart have certain confidence about.
The big in-defensible one for me though is the obvious to see fitness levels. We may not have the greatest players or the greatest budget to spend, but it costs nothing for a squad to strive and be the fittest. It was this lack of attention that made his teams start to look like they lacked motivation and like they weren't playing for their manager.
He had his chances but had to go.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby westlondonhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:02 am

Colours never run wrote:This season was mirroring what he did in the previous season and ended up comfortably away from danger come the end of the season, as he proved in his first one too. And he did it whilst doing well in at least 1 of the Cups so we weren't a hopeless case not able to play or win games that mattered. He won countless big games that mattered during his time as manager and I had little reason to believe he couldn't keep us up as a bear minimum based on all that evidence as I previously stated. A manager who had to put up with the first 4 games away playing catch up before we even really got started, as well as other things out of his control like the sendings off to key players, not to mention having to manage half the games this season under the pressure he's only got 1 more game to save his job from 1 loss to the other. And having done it all under intense pressure to deliver in the 2 season's prior, I think that's sufficient evidence to feel confident he'd do it again if given the chance as before.

It would be far harder to prove we were a lost cause destined for the Championship whilst he was still manager than staying up. I just don't buy in to the same logic as Sullivan would trap off about he had no more life in him. The poor ***** always looked and sounded half dead but he always delivered in the end and I for one was never in doubt we'd at the very least survive enjoying the odd decent Cup run along the way.


History of the past is not evidence of how things will go in the future... neither is making countless excuses for his poor performance.

You've actually provided no evidence?
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby TommyHammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:19 am

Hindsights a beautiful thing but since Moyes has come in we’re 5th in the form table. No body knows for certain what could have happened but I don’t think we’d have picked up 5 points against Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs and I certainly don’t think we’d have scored 7 away from home against Stoke and Huddersfield under Slav.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Castle on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:31 am

Slav unfortunately was so demoralised towards the end of his tenure, as a football manager you need to be extremely thick skinned and believe in what your doing. Unfortunately for our Slav he was constantly undermine and not given the players he needed to play his preferred style and tactics. Staying positive and motivated in these circumstances is extremely difficult no matter how much your paid. People get work satisfaction through acknowledgment of good work , job stability and the thought that your input is important. Slav had none of these, which in turn means he could no longer believe in the job he was doing.

Moyes has proven a good appointment, my hope is his not undermined in the same way both Sam and Slav where. I hope his given the tools, the freedom and the praise he deserves and is handed full control of our transfer policy this summer. The club needs to be turned upside down and have a football strategy that comes away from buying named players with high marketing value. I believe his the man to do this, I just hope our DOF has finally learnt his lessons (which I doubt) and puts faith in his chosen manager. Moyes is doing a good job, I believe it's better then we could of expected under Slav, only because he hasn't yet had to put up with the trials and tribulations poor Slav had too.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby woodford on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:42 am

i'm guessing Slaven Bilic isn't going on about west ham quite as much as some people still go on about him

Yes he had to put up with awful 'co-chairmen' no doubt. But lets not be too revisionist about his time here.

Some of those performances under him were magical ( plenty in season 1, possibly 4 last season ) but far too many were utter dross. Great bloke though.

How on earth is looking back at previous seasons in any way proof that we would avoid the drop ? Based on what science? there are 19 other teams in the PL, are we assuming they all stayed still in this time?
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby hadleighhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:49 am

Harry Hound wrote:It’s pointless arguing over what Bilic may have done as it’s all conjecture
.

So why did you bother saying it?

The team looked totally demoralized when he left and his luck seemed to have run out. It was time for him to go and Moyes has done an exceptional job considering how we looked when he took over.


Then proceed to put more digs in?

Moyes has not done an exceptional job. He has done alright, which is better than I thought he would. He's starting to get more sympathy from me simply as he's not the scum he has to work for.

But I still can't warm to his safety first, negative football and wouldn't want him here long term. I'd be surprised if the owners didn't want to keep him as he will never be adventurous enough to risk finishing below 17th, so they really should love him really.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby OFT on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:36 am

Slav's 'sacking' was like a mercy killing, the poor bloke seemed to be at the end of his tether, understandably so. A seemingly nice guy with an emotional attachment to the club. FWIW I don't think he would have turned it around this time( Just an opinion, a gut feeling).
Moyes has taken what he was offered and possibly realises he was lucky to be offered much at all, He's made changes that appear to have had a positive effect around the place and hopefully it'll be enough.
Moyes doesn't have the burden of the 'attachment' that Slav had, but if he sticks around long enough, he probably will get it,.
What Moyes does have in common with Slav is the duffers he is working for, and. as Paul Walker suggests on the front page http://www.kumb.com/article.php?id=4114 I wonder if they have met their match.
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