V.A.R.

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V.A.R.

Postby only1post on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:55 am

Couldn't see a thread and wasn't sure if I should post under "referee decisions".

Starts tonight in the Brighton v Palace cup game and got a couple of questions.

Firstly would they have contacted the referee for any aspect of the second Forest penalty last night.
Both the awarding of the penalty and the possible double touch were contentious decisions so I am not sure they would have.

Referees can be made aware of violent conduct by a player up to two phases of play later.
So would it have been possible for Ashley Young to get sent off the other day for his elbow, but before he did, assist or score a goal. Would that goal then be wiped off.

And finally do you think there is any chance of players not encroaching within three metres when a referee reviews a decision pitchside.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sendô on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:01 am

How is a "phase of play" defined in football?

Sounds like it's going to be as ham fisted as the offside rule "interfering with play" change.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sutts07 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:05 am

Yes they would have contacted the VAR for the pen, no the decision would not have changed.

It was a foul, a tackle from behind where you take someone out, ball or no ball, is a foul. There would not have been any fuss made about that being given as a free kick anywhere else on the pitch.

The double touch was almost impossible to see even with 8 or 9 replays. The commentators couldn't be clear on it so I assume the 'ruling on the field' (NFL fans will appreciate that) would have stood.

Strange that they are bringing it in for the game tonight. That somehow doesn't seem fair. Why tonight's game but not all other 3rd round FA Cup games?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sutts07 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:07 am

only1post wrote:And finally do you think there is any chance of players not encroaching within three metres when a referee reviews a decision pitchside.


Straight yellow for anyone who is within 3 meters (including managers) should sort that.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sussexhammer74 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:35 am

Will they play the incident to the crowd on a large screen?

Will there be a sponsor of VAR?

Will there be a fanfare building up to the VAR making the decision?

What happens to the amount of time taken to a) challenge the decision and b) the length of time the decision takes. Will this be added to the end of the half?

As Sendo said, what is a phase of play? Team A crosses into box, strikes Team B player on arm on edge of area. Team B player sprints with ball to other end of pitch and plays one two with Team B player. Team B scores. Team A then challenge the handball decision.

I guess it will get people talking and fill some more dead air time on Sky Sports news.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Row X on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:38 am

sutts07 wrote:Straight yellow for anyone who is within 3 meters (including managers) should sort that.


There's a good little piece on how it will work in The Times today.

I've seen the one in a PSV game where the other team have a penalty claim, they played on, PSV went up the other end and scored.... Ref then went to the VAR, which is a monitor on the halfway line on the other side of the pitch to the dugout's (so any manager encrouching into that 3m zone will have a bit of a trek over the pitch and should sent to the stands if they do), watched the replay of the penalty shout and chalked off the goal and gave a penalty.

Whilst the ref is watching the replays, the TV audience will not see what the ref is seeing on the screen, so it still as though the ref's can hide behind a curtain if they still give a dodgy decision. As they will say... "I didn't have access at the time to the replay which clearly showed the foul"

It should be like Rugby, where you can listen into and see the whole process and hear how they come to their final decision.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:16 pm

Just because the cheating Arsenal defenders were calling the Nottingham Forest penalty a ' double-touch ' doesn't mean it was [ it WASN'T ] - had to smile at the Sky TV Commentators desperately trying to discover if it actually was a double touch looking at the incident a number of times . Would they have done so had Nottingham Forest's opponents been anyone but a Top 6 team ?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sanchoz on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 pm

The Australian A-League has had VAR from the start of this season. A couple of articles:

28/10/17

"UNACCEPTABLE" - A-LEAGUE RELEASES STATEMENT ON VAR

The Head of the Hyundai A-League is hoping the VAR is like a fine wine, and can only get better with age.
Following a damning public response to the VAR during Sydney FC's win over Perth Glory, the Head of the Hyundai A-League and Westfield W-League, Greg O’Rourke, has defended the technology, while admitting that the length of time before a decision was “unacceptable”.

“In general the VAR has worked well ensuring that potential match changing decisions are correct and the score is a fair outcome,” said O’Rourke.

“This season we have only had three decisions go to referee review out of 16 games, so we should keep last night in perspective but acknowledge it was unacceptable from a time point of view and is being addressed,” said O’Rourke.

The A-League also addressed the VAR “principle” of “minimum interference for maximum benefit”, citing “better communication protocols” as a way of ensuring last night’s calamity doesn’t occur again.

But exactly how the A-League plans on addressing the time it takes to refer refereeing decisions, and how to expedite the process of reviewing unclear decisions, remains unclear.

The statement admitted that upon deliberation, the VAR returned an “inconclusive” review of whether Shaun Evans’ original decision should have been overruled.

The VAR’s inability to offer a clear decision last night casts some doubt over the purpose of the technology in the first place, however as O’Rourke pointed out;

“When you are introducing something new, there is a learning and continuous improvement cycle.”

How much time A-League fans are willing to give VAR to improve, remains to be seen.


https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/una ... var-476383


17/12/17

A-League committed to VAR despite widespread criticism from coaches, players and fans

Football Federation Australia remains committed to its trial of the controversial Video Assistant Referee and will continue to use the innovation in the A-League for the foreseeable future, in spite of a series of errors and delays to games.

Head of the A-League, Greg O'Rourke, refused to suspend the season-long trial of the VAR after a series of delays, inconsistencies and errors plagued another weekend of games. Central Coast Mariners had two players sent off in their 2-0 loss to Western Sydney Wanderers on Saturday night after the VAR intervened in the on-field decisions to award yellow cards to Wout Brama and Jake McGing, encouraging the referee to upgrade the punishment to red-card offences.

Many are now questioning the very merit and principles of the use of VAR, which is meant to be used sparingly and only in cases of clear and obvious errors - rather than for re-refereeing the game. Fans stormed out of Central Coast Stadium in disgust at the VAR's handling of the red cards, and a member of the Mariners coaching staff was sent off for throwing a water bottle in protest as the spectacle was tarnished by the latest controversy.

It was the third game of the weekend overshadowed by the video referees after Newcastle Jets were awarded a contentious late penalty to beat Adelaide United 2-1, with the VAR failing to overrule what appeared to be an incorrect decision from the on-field referee. Sydney FC striker Bobo went unpunished for kicking an opponent off the ball on Friday night, while Melbourne City's Manny Muscat was sent off in the same game after intervention from the VAR.

While the use of the VAR is yet to show signs of improvement in the A-League, O'Rourke reaffirmed his commitment to the system and fixing the manner of its use, rather than scrapping it altogether.

"The VAR is set to be introduced in more global leagues around the world next year and it is a case of getting it right rather than walking away from the trial. Most other Australian sports have been using technology and referees and umpires in the stands or central hubs for many years and have taken time to improve the systems," O'Rourke said.

"We are rightfully impatient as a sport to see this perfected much quicker and that is our aim as well. We will make some more changes to the way we approach the use of VAR in time for the next round."

His comments follow criticism from coaches and players calling for the FFA to abandon the project, suggesting it is undermining the growth of the game.

Western Sydney Wanderers forward Brendon Santalab slammed the overuse of the VAR in the A-League in spite of his team benefiting from two decisions on Saturday night against the Mariners. Santalab says the trial runs the risk of turning fans off the sport as the quality of entertainment is diminished by the delays and controversy surrounding the VAR.

"I feel for the fans watching these games because we have fans waiting two, three minutes for decisions. The fans are getting upset, the players are standing around - it's a lose-lose," he said. "Something has to be done, it's unacceptable from the fans' perspective and the players' perspective. The crowd wants to see a flowing game, goals, entertainment. That's not entertainment."

Mariners coach Paul Okon also called for the VAR to be scrapped, after losing Brama and McGing to red cards in the second half of their defeat to Western Sydney.

"If you came to this game tonight and you left here no longer in love with football, who could blame you?" Okon said. "I think it's probably what everyone is talking about and that's not the reason why people are turning up watching, it's not why we turn up to play and coach."


http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/alea ... 065y3.html

26/11/17

A-League coaches criticise VAR after Avraam Papadopoulos spitting incident

A-League coaches have condemned Football Federation Australia's use of the Video Assistant Referee after yet another match was overshadowed by a controversial incident involving the new technology.

Just a day after Melbourne City's match against Perth Glory was marred by contentious video officiating, the VAR provided no clarity and significantly delayed the game when intervening after Brisbane Roar defender Avraam Papadopoulos spat at Sydney FC's Matt Simon on Saturday night during the Sky Blues' 3-1 win.

It took three minutes and 49 seconds from the moment Papadopoulos spat at Simon until the referee reached a verdict widely believed to be incorrect. Despite the VAR reviewing play on multiple screens, no decision was made by those officials, requiring match referee Alex King to personally review replays on a small screen on the side of the field.

That was despite the replays running on the giant screens behind both goals at Allianz Stadium for all to see.

King then sent off Papadopoulos before making the baffling choice of issuing a red card to Simon, who had reacted angrily by grabbing the shirt of the Brisbane defender.

That the VAR held up the match for so long without making a direct ruling was slammed by Roar coach John Aloisi, who was also aggrieved the VAR did not intervene for an incident involving a handball in the build-up to Sydney FC's first goal.

"We just have to get better at it. It's frustrating for players, coaches, fans because of the time it is wasting and not always the correct decisions being made with it. That's something I'm sure will improve," Aloisi said. "It's got to improve, I don't like it but it's here to stay."

Aloisi made no apologies for Papadopoulos, who is now facing the prospect of a lengthy suspension if found guilty of intentionally spitting at Simon as well as disciplinary measures from his club.

"I haven't spoken to Avraam yet, but as a club we don't condone it, it's not acceptable - the spit - and we'll deal with that within the football club Monday, or when we get back to Brisbane," Aloisi said.

It's understood that Papadopoulos spat twice at Simon - the first from distance, striking Simon on the side of his face, before allegedly spitting again at Simon while on the ground.

Sydney FC coach Graham Arnold was unhappy with the time lag for the VAR, especially considering no decision was made by the VAR until the on-field referee personally reviewed the incident. Sydney FC are hoping the Simon's red card will be reversed by the A-League Match Review Panel on Monday and have not ruled out appealing.

"It [the VAR] is here to stay, it's something we all have to get used to. The longer it's here the better everyone will get at it. Decisions will be made quicker and quicker but the most important thing is they get the decisions right and thats what the VAR is for," Arnold said.

"Matty probably shouldn't have retaliated but I don't think that warranted what he got. I think I can say to anyone in this room or anyone anywhere, how would you react if you got spat at?"


http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/alea ... zsxid.html
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:16 pm

I'm against it for reasons I've mentioned many times on here so I won't bore you again with them, but if it goes ahead then I'd take a leaf out of cricket's book, where LBW decisions go unchanged unless there's more than half a ball width error.

The on field referee's decision (and he must make a decision unlike in rugby union, where the ref often just asks 'try or not'?) can only be overruled if there is a clear and compelling reason. None of this 'it did slightly brush his arm if you look at camera thirteen's angle', it has to be the magnitude of 'the ref said it came off his hip but the replays show he punched it' size of error.

It's a video assistant referee, not a video replacement referee.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby wolf359 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:25 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:It's a video assistant referee, not a video replacement referee.

We all know that definition will be fluid based on who it is helping.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Macca1973 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:41 pm

I'm sure, just like all other changes and recent innovations in football, it will be interpreted and engineered to assist the 'top' clubs because they have all the money and influence. Officials, pundits, experts alike are petrified of being thrown off the big game gravy train.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby ThreeSixes on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:44 pm

Row X wrote:
I've seen the one in a PSV game where the other team have a penalty claim, they played on, PSV went up the other end and scored.... Ref then went to the VAR, which is a monitor on the halfway line on the other side of the pitch to the dugout's (so any manager encrouching into that 3m zone will have a bit of a trek over the pitch and should sent to the stands if they do), watched the replay of the penalty shout and chalked off the goal and gave a penalty.



Jesus, do you imagine what would happen to the Internet if this happened over here, and one of the "Sky 6" benefitted like that!

Instead of a goal being scored after the "playing on", what would happen if a star striker is hacked down, ruptures his knee ligaments, and is out for the season. In a passage of play that shouldn't of happened. If there is a red card incident in additional period, is this also chalked off?

Can't they just leave our game alone?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:49 pm

A massive error to introduce this new fangle dangle technology .
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby e17 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:55 pm

Any idea that moves the game further away from the one played on any school pitch, on Hackney Marshes or every beach in the world is a terrible one, in my opinion.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:57 pm

the pink palermo wrote:A massive error to introduce this new fangle dangle technology .


Luddite . :)
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Up the Junction on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:05 pm

e17 wrote:Any idea that moves the game further away from the one played on any school pitch, on Hackney Marshes or every beach in the world is a terrible one, in my opinion.

The game is still exactly the same.

The difference is, and the reason we desperately need tech introduced at pro level, is that Sunday League referees on the Marshes don't make decisions which can potentially cost hundreds of people their livelihoods.

Goal line tech has been a huge success and helped level the playing field. This can only do the same.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sendô on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:06 pm

To be honest, whilst it sounds good in theory, I'm against it because you just know that they'll be awarding penalties wherever they want based on the unwritten "there was contact" rule, whereby it seems that players are entitled to throw themselves to the floor and writhe about in agony when a defender brushes past them in the box.

"Yeah there was clear contact, red card and a penalty."

That sort of sport does not interest me.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby James P on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Who decides when it gets used? Do players and/or managers make a request for it? Can the ref say no?

I would hate for a situation to develop where every goal sees the conceding team demand a VAR just on the hope someone did something wrong somewhere.

Also agree it’s bizarre that one game in the third round is being played by different rules to the rest.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby sharphammer on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:20 pm

if it embarrasses referees in front of millions of viewers on a weekly basis, showing them to be the inept fucktards they really are.... then I dont mind
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby hammerdivone on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:31 pm

There is no such thing as an infallible referee.

Fans watching at home can see the incidents time and time again and it's so easy to criticise.

Why shouldn't we give the referees the ability to be as close to infallible as possible, making the game fair?
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