V.A.R.

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Re: V.A.R.

Postby mushy on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:44 pm

Up the Junction wrote:
Goal line tech has been a huge success and helped level the playing field. This can only do the same.


Goal line technology works because it is finite, in other words the ball is either over the line or it isnt.
The decisions that cause the most debate are purely subjective, video replays can sometimes help but mostly the debates rage on into the following weeks. A referee this morning (cant remember who) estimated that VAR might be effective in a maximum of 2% of decisions.
My guess is that it will cause more problems then it solves.
I am all in favour of technology and it should be used for decisions that can be decided scientifically (such as offside etc).
Bobby Madley rushing over to view a screen every five minutes and then allowing a goal that should not stand without explanation will enrage the crowd even more.
VAR will be scrapped very quickly I reckon.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Wembley1966 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:25 pm

James P wrote:Who decides when it gets used? Do players and/or managers make a request for it? Can the ref say no?

https://news.sky.com/story/video-referees-questions-answered-ahead-of-fa-cup-debut-11200001
The VAR and his team will review an incident if they feel it has either been missed or if there is "clear evidence of an error" by the on-field referee.

The VAR will speak to the on-field referee to let him or her know there is an incident that needs looking at and only used in these situations:

1. Awarding a goal
2. Deciding whether an offence is worthy of a direct red card
3. Awarding a penalty
4. Mistaken identity

It cannot be used for run-of-the-mill tackles anywhere outside the penalty area, for bookings or for free-kicks.

sutts07 wrote:Strange that they are bringing it in for the game tonight. That somehow doesn't seem fair. Why tonight's game but not all other 3rd round FA Cup games?

It's a trial to see the potential and whether it should be introduced. I don't know the costs of setting it up, but even if introduced would be like goal-line technology in that it is only used by Premier and Championship home clubs (and even then some Championship clubs can't use goal-line for matches played under floodlights). So even goal line technology would not have been used in 10 of the weekend's FA Cup matches - including ours!

e17 wrote:Any idea that moves the game further away from the one played on any school pitch, on Hackney Marshes or every beach in the world is a terrible one, in my opinion.

Did you write the article on Football365?
Thus what for over 160 years was one game officiated the same from Hackney Marshes to Old Trafford, will have become two different games. Do we really want that?
http://www.football365.com/news/footballs-nightmarish-future-starts-tonightf
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:39 pm

In every game I've seen this used so far, it's proven to be exceptionally well used.

I'm very much looking forward to tonight's game.

Andre Marriner is in charge.
To be fair, I bet the temptation for him to use this during the match will rise to absolutely unbearable levels.

One caveat I always apply to referees, whether people argue they are doing a good or bad job, is that we will not truly be able to allow a referee to do his job properly, until a full level, zero tolerance protection is put in place.

In the examples I have seen in games - even in fiery Italian matches - the use of VAR has gone a long way to diffuse tempers and protest.
Last edited by rare as rockinghorse shat on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby wizzo_66 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Like many things, the principle is a good one.

In practice I fear it will just give the bigger sides even more opportunity to gain additional advantage by putting pressure on ...revisiting close calls against them.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:44 pm

wizzo_66 wrote:Like many things, the principle is a good one.

In practice I fear it will just give the bigger sides even more opportunity to gain additional advantage by putting pressure on ...revisiting close calls against them.


Wouldn't it be down to the off field team to notify the on field referee that a call needs to be reviewed? Ergo, a team's protest or pressure on the pitch is (should be) irrelevant.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby wizzo_66 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:48 pm

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:
Wouldn't it be down to the off field team to notify the on field referee that a call needs to be reviewed? Ergo, a team's protest or pressure on the pitch is (should be) irrelevant.


I suppose what I'm saying is - let me give an example.

It's West Ham Utd V Man Utd in an FA Cup Quarter Final at Old Trafford.

There are two goals in added time. One for each team. For both goals, a defender is fouled which the ref doesn't spot.

Is each incident as likely as the other to be reviewed? Honestly?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:55 pm

It has to be. Otherwise, we're accepting we are involved in a corrupt sport.

I cannot imagine a match - no matter the size of the club or the venue - would overrule a correct decision being made in such a focused manual process.

It simply would not stand up to scrutiny.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Wembley1966 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:55 pm

wizzo_66 wrote:It's West Ham Utd V Man Utd in an FA Cup Quarter Final at Old Trafford.

There are two goals in added time. One for each team. For both goals, a defender is fouled which the ref doesn't spot.

Is each incident as likely as the other to be reviewed? Honestly?

And the Man Utd goal would come in the 7th minute of the 4 added minutes!
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:59 pm

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:It has to be. Otherwise, we're accepting we are involved in a corrupt sport.

I cannot imagine a match - no matter the size of the club or the venue - would overrule a correct decision being made in such a focused manual process.

It simply would not stand up to scrutiny.


They may not overrule a correct decision, but they may well be selective in the incidents they review.

As evidence I cite the recent Lanzini and Hazard penalty awards.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:01 pm

More and longer interruptions in every match , more stoppages , more discontinuity, and the removal of talking points in the pub afterwards .

That was a straight red , all day long .

No it wasn't .The video tape said otherwise .Pass the peanuts .


Everyone stares at phone for rest of evening .

Stalingrad .
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby wizzo_66 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:08 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:They may not overrule a correct decision, but they may well be selective in the incidents they review.

As evidence I cite the recent Lanzini and Hazard penalty awards.


He's got it! That's the point I'm making.

I do not for one minute suggest that at the point of review a decision will be grossly unfair. However, to say I am dubious about what will and won't be reviewed is an understatement.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:18 pm

For 'awarding a goal', how far back can they go?

A corner kick is incorrectly given from which a goal is scored. Do they review the corner?
A throw in is incorrectly given which leads to a corner which leads to a goal. Do they review the throw in?
A player is incorrectly given offside. The free kick is taken quickly and directly leads to a goal? Do they review the offside?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Wembley1966 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:12 pm

^^^
Corner kicks are not reviewed
Throw-ins are not reviewed
Free kicks are not reviewed
Offsides are not reviewed unless it was part of the goal
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby only1post on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:38 pm

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:
Andre Marriner is in charge.
To be fair, I bet the temptation for him to use this during the match will rise to absolutely unbearable levels.
.


I think it is not up to the ref to use it, the decision is made by the people in the VAR studio if they feel something has been missed. The ref can then review it on a pitch side screen.

The refs are being encouraged to decide as normal.

I will be interested to know if they call a penalty for shirt tugging in the area when the ref has missed it or discounted it.

Ogbonna might need to adapt his game.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby The Sherriff on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:40 pm

Probably the worse thing that can happen to the beautiful game.

When it was used in that France vs Spain friendly, the delay to review the goal was about 40 - 50 seconds. By which time the euphoria and moment had passed by the time a decision was eventually made.

It will open pandoras box as well as a host of new fangled gamesmanship techniques, far removed from the Corinthian spirit of the game.

Would be better if the referees could just improve.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby jastons on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:02 pm

Not sure how I feel about this to be honest. I want referees to be more consistent and using technology to help them with some decisions is probably a good thing however I can't help but think that the technology should be used for more things - corners, offsides and free kicks.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby gosling67 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:47 pm

BT have just had Graham Poll showing example incidents which would have been overturned by VAR.

Used that goal by Bournemouth to show it was "clearly offside, then headed, well, handled into the net".

So I'll keep an open mind until I've seen it in action.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby aaronhammer on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 pm

I’m all for it. Not sure this format will be the best but good to see it coming in. I hope they review each goal for offside and develop technology to have that automatically assisted.

Take Bournemouth away, I would much have the extra 2 points than a talking point on the way home and at work the next day. Equally against Tottenham I was very happy to discuss the 2 great goals I witnessed (and Masuaku’s skill) rather than debating anything controversial - ok I could’ve debated the tackle (foul) Lanzini but I’d rather talk about the game itself.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Iron Mark on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 pm

How long did it take for two officials to overturn the decision in the Bournemouth game and end up with the wrong decision?

V.A.R. can't be worse than that.

There will still be plenty of talking points as refs will still give decisions that fans will disagree with. How many times have we seen a decision everyone disagrees with but the media refs (Poll, Gallagher, Webb, etc) have had split opinions?

If it helps to get better decisions and gives the refs the help they need, let's see it in action.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby The_Dead_Ball on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:17 pm

Quick question

If we had this system in Billic’ s first season. Would we had finished 4th and played champs league the season afterwards?
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