V.A.R.

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Re: V.A.R.

Postby brownout on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:11 pm

Stevo44 wrote:
Secondly, goal celebrations are notably more tempered. Not only do we check linesman's flags but now we are looking at the screen because we know they are all being reviewed - the "Maccas" symbol flashes until the final decision is made.

.


For me that has had a major effect in rugby. No one can be sure it's a try until they've reviewed the video, taking the spontaneity out of it.

We don't need VAR we need to punish cheating players.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby ThreeSixes on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:24 pm

Coops wrote:I think there should be 3 people in a room looking at everything that happens and giving their opinion. The game shouldn't stop unless all 3 disagree with the refs original decision. The game would continue to flow and only be pulled back when a definite mistake has been made.


Yes, and two of those people should be a supporter for each team (supporters that have demonstrated through their Facebook postings / forum posts that they know more about the game than qualified referees).
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Turns to Stone on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:26 pm

Players always dive. It's ALWAYS a dive. Sometimes it's a free-kick or a pen as well, but the sad truth is that whatever happens, a player will make the most of it.

It's like two boxers both diving every time the other guy swings....good luck trying to work out what landed and what didn't.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Wembley1966 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:28 pm

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote:Haven't seen the incident from last night myself but from what I've heard on the radio it sounds like pundits like Shearer are kicking off and calling the system a disgrace because firstly the ref didn't give something and then secondly the VAR guy didn't call the refs attention to it.

Maybe....just maybe Big Al, two qualified refs are better placed to make a call than you are? You miserable balding geordie windbag.

Rasp wrote:All day long it was a dive and Shearer is a gobshite.


From The Guardian:
    When the VAR failed to overturn the decision Alan Shearer, part of the BBC’s panel of pundits, was apoplectic.

    “I was very doubtful about it and now it’s a shambles,” he raged. “We all think it’s a clear and obvious penalty. That’s why it’s all wrong, because it’s someone else’s opinion and that’s why it’s a shambles.”

    Even if the decision had been clearly wrong – which it wasn’t, but we’ll come on to that – Shearer’s reaction was childish and ill‑informed, and by his own admission – “I was very doubtful about it” – fuelled by prejudice rather than genuine analysis.

    Being employed to have opinions does not mean he has to leap two-footed into them, studs up and full of fury. And by being so judgmental and so outspoken Shearer has unnecessarily brought the focus on to the VAR and away from the humiliating fact that three Chelsea players were cautioned for simulation in one match against opponents from a lower division.

Full Article:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/18/var-alan-shearer-childish-time-to-get-used?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Coops on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:12 pm

ThreeSixes wrote:Yes, and two of those people should be a supporter for each team (supporters that have demonstrated through their Facebook postings / forum posts that they know more about the game than qualified referees).


No they should be other referees, maybe seniors who have retired from actually running around on the pitch. They could tell the ref what they haves seen, if it goes against what he awarded then an only then does he have the option of stopping the game. This will keep the game flowing but also help to reduce the amount of mistakes. Obviously the final decision will still be down to the ref.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Crossd_Hammrs on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:37 pm

Nice link, Wembley.
Pretty much the same my view of the whole situation. But it's amazing how many people comment on that article still missing the concept of "clear and obvious error."
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby goa127 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:44 pm

I'm amazed nobody has posted on this subject after the Liverpool / west brom game. To me all the excitement and emotion of scoring will be taken out of the game if every other goal and incident is reviewed. And ruling out Silva's goal for city? VAR no thanks,even though it would have been to our advantage this season
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby Clacton-ammer on Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:58 pm

goa127 wrote:I'm amazed nobody has posted on this subject after the Liverpool / west brom game. To me all the excitement and emotion of scoring will be taken out of the game if every other goal and incident is reviewed. And ruling out Silva's goal for city? VAR no thanks,even though it would have been to our advantage this season


I think they got the decisions right on the West Brom/Liverpool game, excluding the Salah pen, I did not think there was enough contact for it to be. But clearly on this thread, what do I know :lol:

VAR is great when you are in the armchair at home, but not so good if you are in the ground (yet), they need to keep the crowd informed.

As for the Silva goal yesterday, VAR would have made it a goal, which would have been the right decision.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby jacko on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:07 pm

Yeah, the excitment after that Bournemouth game when we were cheated out of 3 points - yeah, I really will miss that kind of excitement.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby HammerMan2004 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:12 pm

Fairly simple way of keeping it exciting. Show what the ref sees on the screens in the ground.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby only1post on Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:50 pm

I thought Pardew made a couple interesting points.
He felt VAR affected the atmosphere in the ground and the delays caused hamstring injuries to two of his players.
I have a feeling the negatives will outweigh the positives on this attempt to help the refs.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby goa127 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:00 pm

jacko wrote:Yeah, the excitment after that Bournemouth game when we were cheated out of 3 points - yeah, I really will miss that kind of excitement.

similar situation in Italy at the weekend (ball in off arm) goal stood AFTER VAR. WTF?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby e17 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:30 pm

One of my best mates is a scouser (I know) and he reckoned the VAR situation made it one of the worst and most baffling games he’s attended in 30 years.

Still a massive no for me. Leave the Andy Grays in the studio where I can avoid them
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby bubbles1966 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:34 pm

Surely, the game should follow the cricket/tennis example if it's doing this?

No VAR unless called for by one team using a limited number of challenges per game - say two max per team.

Has to be shown in the ground on screens.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby uptonparkhurst on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:57 pm

We should ask Reece Burke about V.A.R as he was on the end of one of the worst penalty decisions I've
ever seen.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby HammerAl on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:11 am

I think it should only be used for facts, IE whether a ball crossed the line, if a player was offside or when a player scores but should not have been allowed, for example Watford’s second goal against Southampton was a clear handball that put the ball in the net (whether he actually meant to do it or not). As soon as VAR is used for decisions that are made by opinion, then football is in big trouble. There could be a foul of dive that was clear to 99 out of 100 of us but the one person that didn’t think it was is stuck behind a monitor wherever it is in the country. We cannot let the opinion of one person change how and what football is.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby paulthebubble on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:17 am

uptonparkhurst wrote:We should ask Reece Burke about V.A.R as he was on the end of one of the worst penalty decisions I've
ever seen.


That was a ridiculous call.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby ThreeSixes on Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:14 am

uptonparkhurst wrote:We should ask Reece Burke about V.A.R as he was on the end of one of the worst penalty decisions I've
ever seen.


That's a great idea, can you do that?
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby The Gibbins on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:04 am

I just don't like the process, if it was seamless, and done straight away then fine. However i much prefer football the way it is, i think more should be done to support referees. If VAR was seamless and quick then that would be fine, like with cricket where a call is done fairly quickly. Admittedly i haven't seen it properly employed over here but watching Serie A its too slow and kills the game, i feel it loses its emotional edge and cuts out the drama of the game. There is also the argument it is still down to opinion anyway and decisions will still be argued either way. I will give it a chance but i am not convinced, and its already pissing me off seeing players doing a TV sign to the ref... of which i am glad to hear is an instant booking.
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Re: V.A.R.

Postby cowelly2006 on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:22 am

I think there are some simple lessons to be taken from other sports that have implemented technology. It really baffles me how they have got it so wrong given the precedent set in other sports. My ideas below:

1. Give the power of review to the captain of each team. Only allow 2 reviews per game (if successful then they keep them).

2. Ensure decision reviews can been seen on the screen in the stadium.

3. Referees must have microphones to explain their decisions

4. Restrict to game changing situations. Examples penalties, red cards, offside goals, handballs (like the Wilson one). I am certain we could come up with a definitive list on what is determined to be a game changing situation.

With the above it would be much more transparent, and giving the power of appeal to the teams would limit the number of appeals, reducing the risk of it severely impacting the play.

I'm sure this will now be picked apart. :D

EDIT - my view is we desperately need technology in the game to assist the referees and officials that are clearly not up to the task. I don't see at as a positive that we get to "chat down the pub" about awful decisions like the Bournemouth equaliser, the Reece Burke penalty, the Mike Dean red card for Feghouli, the run of 7 games decided by the referee in our last season at Upton Park. It needs to stop and I don't trust them to sort it any other way.
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