Where is the money?

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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Coops on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:00 pm

I thought that we moved grounds to boost the clubs finances in order to compete in the transfer market with clubs challenging for European places.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Graza on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:05 pm

Claret&Blue,Thru& wrote:Why not ask the 85% that voted for it?

I believe 85% voted for it as much as I believe 95% of people are happy with the new ground.

I asked the club at the time for a breakdown of the vote by bond holders, season ticket holders, people who bought 10 or more home tickets, 5 or more, 5 or less and none. My request was never even acknowledged (not that I thought it would be). That sort of a breakdown would have allowed us to infer from the vote who actually wanted the change. I'd put pound on the penny that it wasn't the ST holders or regular attendees.

I still want to know why we have to sell to buy when we supposedly had enough money for a bid in Carvalho at the end of the transfer window.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ub-by-club
Has us paying 60% of our income on wages in the financial year ending in April 16. I can't find more recent data. Since then the operational costs of the club have reduced significantly, the squad grew then massively shrank (for a net transfer fee gain) and the income from TV has continued to soar. But investment in the playing staff has stalled, and it very much shows in the clubs league performance.

So where has the money gone?
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Rocketron on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:29 pm

Perfect chant for tomorrow
Where's the money gone, David Sullivan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSNSTerj2Kc
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby MD_HM on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:50 pm

Even though the 85% was created by weighted questions it wasn’t for what we have ended up with.

I still fully believe that if they had stuck to their end of the bargain and invested in the playing squad then most wouldn’t be as angry.

Same way if we do get new owners who seriously invest in the club, Stadium and playing squad that a lot of the anger would go or at least be appeased

The whole point is at present we have seen no investment, this summer we spent less net than we did at the Boleyn for example... so the whole move was pointless

No one was asked the question, would you leave the Boleyn for us spending less money than we do now and fighting relegation each year.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby ToiletDuck on Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 am

MD_HM , maybe the 85% were naive enough to think we would not be involved in relegation again and why would we?
We had Payet at the time the best player in the world, Creswell, Noble & Antonio all banging on the door for England and the promise of quality internationals to join us.

then reality hit.

we loaned big and paid big wages but what end product?

in business if you cannot do a job you hire someone who can, be that a cleaner, accountant, sales rep, PA. what you do not do is try and do it all yourself!

As much as I used to support the board , i am rapidly losing faith in them
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Graza on Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Relevant to but to the side if both the G+S discussion and the transfer thread is this one on where the money has gone.

Using http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk as the source we have

16/17 in:

André Ayew £21.69m
Manuel Lanzini £10.80m
Robert Snodgrass £10.80m
José Fonte £8.28m
Arthur Masuaku £6.39m
Edimilson Fernandes £5.76m
Simone Zaza £4.50m loan fee
Jonathan Calleri £4.23m loan fee
Gökhan Töre £2.70m loan fee
Ashley Fletcher Free transfer
Havard Nordtveit Free transfer
Sofiane Feghouli Free transfer
Álvaro Arbeloa Free transfer

Total : £75.15m

16/17 out:

Dimitri Payet £26.37m
James Tomkins £10.53m

Total : £36.9

16/17 net - £38.25

17/18 in :

Marko Arnautovic £20.07m
Chicharito £16.02m
Sead Haksabanovic £2.70m
Joe Hart £2.07m
Pablo Zabaleta Free transfer

Total £40.86

17/18 out:

Havard Nordtveit £7.20m
Ashley Fletcher £6.57m
Darren Randolph £5.04m
Enner Valencia £4.95m
Sofiane Feghouli £3.83m
Stephen Hendrie Free transfer
Raphael Spiegel Free transfer
Robert Snodgrass Loan

Total £27.59

17/18 net - £13.28

16-18 net -£51.53

Now if you dispute some of those figure fair enough but there seems to be variance either way to me. It includes £11.5m in loan fees for 4 players who haven't really worked out. Also none of our loans (including Snodgrass) were listed as us taking any wedge at all which seems a bit odd but never mind.

The reason people get upset about our business in 2017 is that when you take January's net of (19.08 out 26.37 in) £7.29 profit and hold it up to the summer outlay of 13.28 you get a net of just £5.99m out.

So the question of where is the money? Why are we looking to sell to buy? Wages are not at the level whereby this is all we've got surely - especially given our dumping spree of players in the summer.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Georgee Paris on Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:17 pm

Why don’t you include the loan outs?
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Graza on Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:12 pm

Georgee Paris wrote:Why don’t you include the loan outs?

Because there were loads of them but none had any monetary value attached so was a lot of reformatting work on a mobile for no contributing figures.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Kialos on Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:15 pm

So West Ham have money spent figures plastered all over the place but money coming in from sales and loans seem not to be? Who'd have thunk it.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Graza on Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:59 pm

Kialos wrote:So West Ham have money spent figures plastered all over the place but money coming in from sales and loans seem not to be? Who'd have thunk it.

In fairness we got 4 freebies in the 16/17 summer, none of whom made huge impact on the first team ( though I was personally annoyed to see Fletcher go) and sold 3 of them for a combined 17.6m. We also sold Rudolph who we got for free for another 5m so that's not too bad really.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Rasp on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:06 pm

Rocketron wrote:Perfect chant for tomorrow
Where's the money gone, David Sullivan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSNSTerj2Kc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cant get this friggin song out of my head now....
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Kialos on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:08 pm

No player is ever free.

You don't pay a fee to the selling club, you pay a huge chunk of cash to the player and their agent.

Makes my piss boil reading "in fairness we got 4 freebies in" when talking about a transfer window when this club had a once in a blue moon chance to progress and the owners showed their true level of personal avarice and incompetence.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby brooking_1980 on Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:40 am

Kialos wrote:Makes my piss boil reading "in fairness we got 4 freebies in" when talking about a transfer window when this club had a once in a blue moon chance to progress and the owners showed their true level of personal avarice and incompetence.


Agreed. We were promised the next level. When the chance somehow miraculously appeared in front of us, like the great parting of the Red Sea, we didn't shell out for a few players to get us over the line, we let the only World Class player I've seen at West Ham for a considerable time, slip through our fingers and a whole bunch of other facts It pains me to recite.

These owners have no interest in Champions League, they have a die-hard market of c 50k season ticket holders, they have the Sky TV money, they just want to finish 17th or above and the sooner it sinks in with us, the better all round.

A part of me says they don't flinch at Championship, as its a good way to cut the chaff, take the parachute, and we'll be back in 1 year anyways. Tell that to Leeds, Boro, Forest, Villa etc and see what they say.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Graza on Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:47 am

Kialos wrote:No player is ever free.

You don't pay a fee to the selling club, you pay a huge chunk of cash to the player and their agent.

Makes my piss boil reading "in fairness we got 4 freebies in" when talking about a transfer window when this club had a once in a blue moon chance to progress and the owners showed their true level of personal avarice and incompetence.

Naturally the player gets more as they've cost you less and they can pick and choose. They weren't the 4 players we needed. Not really, we needed players in those positions but they were cheaper options.

If you use those figures we spanked £56.07m on players and received just £10.53m for Tonks. A £45.54m net outlay plus those 4 "freebies".

That comment about the freebies was in response to the observation that we didn't have much coming in from sales - we did have money in for those players, and it was profit on transfer fees - agents fees/signing on fees etc. that all cuts in too but I was talking purely transfer fees as the agent fee figures are even more shadowy than transfer fees.

The fact that the players we bought and got in didn't work out, some were probably never going to (Calleri anyone?) doesn't change the hard outlay showed ambition, just incompetence. This season though, much much less so. Had the Carvaliho deal gone through at 25-30m our outlay would have been a net 38-43 - almost the same as last season and therefore at least consistent investment if on the low side for a team that has moved home to generate more income.

For reference out last season at the Bolyen 15/16 was:
In:
Dimitri Payet £13.50m
Angelo Ogbonna £9.90m
Michail Antonio £8.55m
Pedro Obiang £5.40m
Sam Byram £4.32m
Nikica Jelavic £3.69m
Stephen Hendrie £1.17m
Emmanuel Emenike £900k
Darren Randolph Free transfer
Manuel Lanzini Loan
Alex Song Loan
Victor Moses Loan

Total : £47.43m

Out:
Stewart Downing £7.11m
Modibo Maïga £3.60m
Matt Jarvis £3.06m
Mauro Zárate £1.89m
Nikica Jelavic £1.00m

Total : £16.66m

Net : £30.77m

Or £17.49m more than this season or £5.005m more than our average spend whilst in the OS with more sky money than ever.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby bubbles500 on Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:22 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/sportinginte ... 6417197057

Deloitte new money list 17th in WORLD 8 th in UK. Up one place but currently being out spent by Brighton and Huddersfield.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby DDHammer on Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:38 pm

bubbles500 wrote:Deloitte new money list 17th in WORLD 8 th in UK. Up one place but currently being out spent by Brighton and Huddersfield.


Huddersfield - £15m wage bill, Brighton - £15m wage bill, West Ham - £95m wage bill. We all get the same TV money, just they don't have to spend 90% of it paying players wages.

Is our revenue from Merchandise, ticketing and sponsors enough to make up the £80m gap in wages we pay? We've got ageing, mid-table quality, injury prone players on long contracts and massive wages, won't change anytime soon.

Hart
Zabaleta
Fonte
Collins
Carroll
Hernandez
Sakho
Ayew

£30m a year in basic wages going on that lot.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Up the Junction on Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:40 pm

Graza wrote:Using http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk as the source...

You'd have saved yourself a lot of time and effort had you simply followed the Stats/Latest Transfers link in the menu bar at the top of this page:

http://www.kumb.com/stats_transfers.php
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby wildkard on Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:45 pm

It’s not that “we” (ie the club) don’t spend money, it’s that the money is spent incredibly poorly. We spend so much on wages that it reduces the amount we spend on transfers. That would be fine if the big wage earners were doing the business on the pitch. The flip side of this is that you can only attract mid tier players to West Ham by paying them way more than anyone else would. And so the circle continues.
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Re: Where is the money?

Postby Wembley1966 on Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:45 pm

bubbles500 wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/sportingintel/status/955750386417197057" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Deloitte new money list 17th in WORLD 8 th in UK. Up one place but currently being out spent by Brighton and Huddersfield.

Here's the actual report:
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-sbg-dfml2018.pdf

Presumably they have guessed at the latest revenue numbers for last season as our accounts have not been published yet.

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Re: Where is the money?

Postby sharphammer on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:01 pm

interesting....

I estimated some time ago that around 400m had come into the club in the last 2 seasons and kind of disappeared without a trace if you considered our minimal net spend on transfers....

And got almost got ****ing hounded out of here!
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