West Ham Utd 2-0 Watford (10/02/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:50 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:[

That team yesterday was full of bang average or fading players. They are a mix of bottom half PL and top half Championship standard with the odd exception. They were going for three's and four's earlier in the year in an 'attacking' (losing) 4-2-3-1 set up.

All the teams at our level (7th-19th) are overwhelmingly dependent on a small number of players in their group to add sparkle and class. Take them away , the football quality dips as do the results.


As you say, there is not much difference in the quality of players in teams from 11th down (i would say Leicester and Everton have a lot more quality than us)

Therefore tactics, motivation and fitness gain a lot more importance

Go out with a defensive mindset, and loads of defensive players, and the other team gets the upper hand. We have gone for three against Newcastle (H), Bournemouth and Brighton in recent months playing with 7 at the back. Not that much of an improvement vs Bilic. We actually managed to get some clean sheets under Bilic against teams around us (Huddersfield, Swansea, West Brom - admittedly they were very dull games)

Go out with an attacking line-up, get at the opposition defence from the off, get them on the back foot. Otherwise we will be one nil down and chasing the game with minimal attacking options

The way we played v Watford at home last year for first 30 minutes was probably the best we played all season. Then Collins/ Adrian had a mix up and game changed on its head. A repeat of that first 30 minutes is what we need.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:55 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Therefore tactics, motivation and fitness gain a lot more importance.


Going into yesterday's game we were top 6 on form since the tactical change at the beginning of December. That speaks for itself.

We gave away a bad first goal - Zabaleta, Hernandez, Noble and Rice all culpable with poor touches, passes, challenges or positional indiscipline. We got back into it, and conceded a fabulous second goal.

We lost a game. It happens - just a lot less frequently these days.

We're a better team when Arnautovic, Masuaku, Obiang and Lanzini play - quicker, more inventive, more competitive.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Sir_Trevor on Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:55 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
The way we played v Watford at home last year for first 30 minutes was probably the best we played all season. Then Collins/ Adrian had a mix up and game changed on its head. A repeat of that first 30 minutes is what we need.


Iirc we had Payet and Lanzini playing in that game.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby bowltorious on Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:03 pm

-----------------------Adrian
--------Kouyate-----Reid-----Ogbonna
Zabaleta-------Noble----Rice------Cresswell
----------------Mario---------Arnie
--------------------Hernandez

Im not going to say we will win because anytime we get confident we get turned over. Also they've won 1 in 12......
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:39 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Going into yesterday's game we were top 6 on form since the tactical change at the beginning of December. That speaks for itself.

.


and yet the only teams we have beaten since Chelsea are the teams that currently sit in the bottom 3, despite having a relatively 'easy' run of games

We have picked up some points but are hardly setting the world alight

If we want to get out of the mess we are in, we need to try and win games, not focus on trying not to lose them. IMHO

I have been watching the Palace v newcastle game, and to be fair both teams are proper going for it. Attacking line-ups, players piling forward. Same as Newcastle did when they came to our gaff in December
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:01 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:and yet


There is no 'and yet'. It's about collecting points. That's it.

Attempting to win in the way you repeatedly allude to resulted in us being utterly hopeless through to the end of November and IIRC you complained about that every week too. :)

More calculated management from the beginning of the season would have seen us well inside the top half by now.

Consistently reverting to a wide open formation is what did for Slaven in the end. Many people who were overwhelmingly on his side lost faith in him because of it. Let's hope Moyes isn't daft enough to do it with these players - they aren't good enough defensively - yet we've only lost three of our last dozen in the league.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:09 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Attempting to win in the way you repeatedly allude to resulted in us being utterly hopeless through to the end of November and IIRC you complained about that every week too. :)



no i didn't

i complained when we went ultra defensive under him, even though it got us some points

I loved Bilic but was very accepting that he was unable to find a balance between attack and defence. We have gone from the extreme of Allardyce (who can do it, but generally chooses not to), to Bilic (who simply wasn't good enough to strike a balance), to the extreme of Moyes (who I much prefer to Allardyce)

I find it amazing that we cannot find a manager who can find a balance between attack and defence, and I don't believe it is entirely down to the players we have

FWIW i think we will stay up if we continue to play ultra defensive football, but I think we would be more comfortable if we simply go for it, and try and win games
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby bowltorious on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:16 pm

Whilst I respect the decent job Moyes has done so far that's all it has been, decent. I agree he sets up to not lose, much like Allardyce did which means one thing, too many draws. Eveytime we pull away with a decent or lucky win we slowly get pulled back into it. 3 points is all that seperates us and the relegation zone. We HAVE to beat Watford and be confident about it.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby TheHandOfDog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:21 pm

Ahh yes..for that first 30 minutes I believe we were onto something special, then we lost 4-2 and everything collapsed.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Wilko1304 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:23 pm

I would love to be able to play 4 at the back, but anyone pushing for that right now cannot have watched us this season.

Interestingly, I would be considering dropping Kouyate, even though he's been much better lately. Kouyate fits best into our team as a centre back

I also don't really want to see Zabaleta being exposed as a wing back in our system, even more so because Byram gets up and down and offers an attacking threat.

I would guess that it's unlikely that both Antonio and Arnie will start, so would guess we have a front three of Hernandez, Mario and Arnie/Antonio if we're lucky
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby thejackhammer on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:23 pm

I hate Moyes, he’s too defensive, away at Huddersfield and Stoke playing a back five, totally gave them the upper hand!

And don’t get me started on the home game with Chelsea. Give me a 3-1 loss where we have a go over a 1-0 win any day of the week!

And to have the audacity to only get a draw against in form Crystal Palace with half a team missing, well.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:30 pm

thejackhammer wrote:I hate Moyes, he’s too defensive, away at Huddersfield and Stoke playing a back five, totally gave them the upper hand!

And don’t get me started on the home game with Chelsea. Give me a 3-1 loss where we have a go over a 1-0 win any day of the week!

And to have the audacity to only get a draw against in form Crystal Palace with half a team missing, well.


So we beat two of the worst sides in the division. Hardly a endorsement of the system

The trouble with the two attacking player system is that it is very fine margins. Take the lead (courtesy of a dodgy pen v Stoke and a defensive howler v Huddersfield) and yes, you can sit back and control the game from your own half. However, if you go behind, then it is far less effective

The way we played against Chelsea was different to how we have played recently. We did look to take the game to them in the first twenty minutes - plus we did have three attacking players playing that day

A draw against Watford, given our remaining fixtures, is simply not a good enough result. But if we play for one, we will likely get one, or lose
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby samanthadog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm

:D
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby funky chicken on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:11 pm

I'd go with:


--------------------------------Adrian--------------------------------

-----------------Collins----Ogbonna-----Reid-------------------

-Zabaleta-------Kouyate-----------Noble--------Cresswell-

--------------------------------Mario--------------------------------

-------------------Chicharito-----Arnautovic--------------------


Subs: Hart, Byram, Fonte, Rice, Haksabanovic, Antonio, Hugill.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby johnnyb on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:28 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes brings back Hart for this game. Just a hunch. Might be totally wrong of course but I don't think Moyes really rates Adrian that much. He has said more than once that Hart will play more games up to the end of the season. Well there's only 12 games left.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby mumbles87 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:32 pm

johnnyb wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes brings back Hart for this game. Just a hunch. Might be totally wrong of course but I don't think Moyes really rates Adrian that much. He has said more than once that Hart will play more games up to the end of the season. Well there's only 12 games left.


I wouldnt overly blame him if he did aswell.. adrian hasnt covered himself in glory for the goals recently
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Wilko1304 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:34 pm

Not sure how Adrian can be blamed for those 3. One top corner unstoppable, one a completely exposed 1-on-1 and the third rocketed through the defenders legs
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Simply Moore on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:37 pm

I don’t wish to be over dramatic but we lose this, our late assault on that champions league spot the owners said we would get after the move, could really be in doubt.

2-0 West Ham. New boy to get his first. COYI :crest:
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Samba on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:56 pm

We just about could afford to lose to Brighton. We can't afford to lose against Watford. A draw would be useless as well.
Even though it's only 3 points, a win gives us a fighting chance of staying up. A defeat leaves us right in the mix to go down.
If Hart comes in for any games now, we are going down.
No offense, Joe.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread

Postby Rio on Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:32 pm

TheHandOfDog wrote:Ahh yes..for that first 30 minutes I believe we were onto something special, then we lost 4-2 and everything collapsed.


Things have been awful ever since the half time whistle in that game
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