Toxicity.....

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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby Claret&Blue,Thru& on Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:59 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:
Burnley Hammer: I'm another that thinks that the players just aren't good enough and we need an overhaul.

Arnie, Lanzini, Obiang, Rice, and Ogbonna are the only ones I'd really like to keep from the current squad.

Claret&Blue,Thru&: Relegation always brings an overhaul but you won't be seeing many of the above in the second Division.

Many or any?


Rice?
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby goa127 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:22 pm

The same people who claim a toxic atmosphere doesn't affect the team also say that we wouldn't have lost this or that match at the Boleyn because of the atmosphere. The focus seems to have been totally lost now, and anything West Ham seems a fair target. Surely it's possible to support the team while opposing the board. Or are they to be criticised for being paid by the board?
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby 3Dicks on Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:31 pm

somerset-hammer wrote:Great album.


fitting song too...

You, what do you own the world?
How do you own disorder, disorder
Now somewhere between the sacred silence
Sacred silence and sleep
Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Disorder, disorder, disorder
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby bubbles1966 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:07 pm

goa127 wrote:The same people who claim a toxic atmosphere doesn't affect the team also say that we wouldn't have lost this or that match at the Boleyn because of the atmosphere.


Utter b*llocks.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby mattyD on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:23 pm

The toxic atmosphere definitely had a negative effect on the pitch but it's too simple to say that's just down to the fans - why is it toxic? We've all got a different answer but are generally on the same page. Nobody wants to see the team lose but you can't blame the fans for expressing the negativity that has been brought into the club by the owners and CEO. Maybe if they'd have let the protest going ahead without getting fascist hooligans to scupper it maybe the fans could have been more positive inside the ground..... to which they were for the majority of the first half. The club is rotten and it's not the fans, they are the ones fighting for it.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:42 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:I'm another that thinks that the players just aren't good enough and we need an overhaul.

Arnie, Lanzini, Obiang, Rice, and Ogbonna are the only ones I'd really like to keep from the current squad.


I'd be inclined to agree.

No one is pushing other players for their position except probably in the GK department and that has 2 threads of its own.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby Aceface on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:13 pm

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:Could have written this any time in the last 20 years.

The common denominator? The setup at the club.

A complete revolution behind the scenes is what's needed... and I don't just mean the board.
Training ground, scouting network, vision for the future, the whole lot is absolutely archaic at best, shoddy and amateur at worst.


I sort of wonder occasionally if the premier league itself is an underestimated pathogen in all of this. And not just for us.

Look at Swansea and Southampton – both clubs that seemed to have cracked it, emerging initially into the top flight in a burst of optimism, and offering up a lot of the things you're probably referencing above: strong youth set-ups, training grounds, fans with a seat at the board, identifiable patterns of play, good scouting. Five years of PL football later and they're bland mushy identity-free clubs who are as poor, in the spiritual sense, as we are.

You can already witness Bournemouth slowly heading that way season on season too.

The money available corrupts most of what's good in clubs and incentives a lot of the things fans dread the most.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby MB on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:35 pm

I don’t think it is the root cause but neither does it help. I think we as fans underestimate the stress these players are under and how it impacts some of them. Yes I know poor little millionaires blah blah blah. But why can a player look like a world beater one month and like dog **** the next?

The mental side of the game is massive and ours look shot to pieces. Ditto Moyes.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby irongav on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:27 pm

must be pretty toxic when we play away.....what is it 2 wins and 5 draws......... :thdn:
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:54 pm

MB wrote:The mental side of the game is massive and ours look shot to pieces. Ditto Moyes.

The side's and Moyes's confidence/ motivation were shot to pieces way before Saturday.

I would imagine if players see their squad needs strengthening, hear that the club will strengthen but instead sees it further depleted with the sale of a couple of players who were 'replaced' by a untried Championship lad who has disappeared into the ether and a geriatric full back that would be more than enough for them to get the message that pretty much all is lost here. If we notice our awful transfer dealings think how much more the players notice it.

And the idea from some that a few blokes on the field, for a combined total of a few minutes at most, has anywhere near as significant an impact on performance compared with the overall inadequacies and failings of the eleven who were out there for 90 plus minutes is fanciful.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby bubbles1966 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:01 pm

The most toxic impact on the players is the sight of ageing, fading blokes who can't run being recruited, or wet behind the ears kids being relied upon.

The players aren't stupid. Anyone that's ever played team sport at any level knows who the talents are in the team and who needs a crutch.

It all comes back to the owners trying to palm off cheap tat and raggedy fifteenth-hand goods as sparkly new merchandise

We know it's crap; the managers know its crap; the players know its crap.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:03 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:We know it's crap; the managers know its crap; the players know its crap.

You put it better than me.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby Hayden on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:17 pm

Ironically we are a System that is ON THE Down
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby MB on Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:12 pm

DaveWHU1964 wrote:The side's and Moyes's confidence/ motivation were shot to pieces way before Saturday.


Agreed Dave, I wasn’t suggesting Saturday caused this.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:42 pm

I can see between 8 and 10 players being sold this summer , who will be doing the buying and who they will buy I wouldn't have a clue .
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby goa127 on Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:12 am

mattyD wrote:The toxic atmosphere definitely had a negative effect on the pitch but it's too simple to say that's just down to the fans - why is it toxic? We've all got a different answer but are generally on the same page. Nobody wants to see the team lose but you can't blame the fans for expressing the negativity that has been brought into the club by the owners and CEO. Maybe if they'd have let the protest going ahead without getting fascist hooligans to scupper it maybe the fans could have been more positive inside the ground..... to which they were for the majority of the first half. The club is rotten and it's not the fans, they are the ones fighting for it.

Unfortunately some people DO want to see the team lose, and want to see us relegated This somehow is revenge on the board apparently, not that I can see it.
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Re: Toxicity.....

Postby Believer on Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:12 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I can see between 8 and 10 players being sold this summer , who will be doing the buying and who they will buy I wouldn't have a clue .

Unfortunately the only ones to be sold will be the ones we should be building a team around. We will sadly be left with your Evra’s, Zabaleta’s, Kouyate’s & Carroll’s.

We go down and I darent think what sort of team we will have. No doubt one full of players 30+ who will need replacing again in 2 seasons and the whole thing repeats itself.
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