West Ham Utd 1-1 Stoke City (16/04/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Dwight1970 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:44 am

ChzMff wrote:And I think you’re overlooking that we are West Ham and not Man City. You mention we’re playing the 2nd worst team in the league. Well guess what, we were the 5th worst team in the league and ain’t particularly great ourselves.

The line up was exactly the same as against Southampton however Stoke did not play with the same naievety nor commit masses of players ahead of the ball early on. To go out, gung-ho, in this fixture, would have been both suicidal and stupid. People don’t like hearing it because they’re wrapped up in this weird notion that we should be blowing these sort of teams away but tonight was about not losing and ensuring a relegation rival (yes, rival!) did not leave with any forward momentum.


I am sorry Stoke did leave loads of space the difference was against Southampton was the like of Fernandes and Kouyate were far more pressing in their roles so players supported Arnautovic and Mario in exploiting it whereas tonight they didn't so left Arnautovic isolated far too often.

We made Southampton look worse than us by being positive whereas tonight at times we allowed Stoke to be the better side in the first half at times by conceding ground too easily, I feel had we been positive from kick off like we were for Southampton we would won comfortably tonight against such a poor defence and had it caused them to nick a goal then we would have had 89 or whatever minutes to get an equaliser not 11 so I am not really sure what you point you are trying to make about us being caught out had we been more attacking unlike what actually happened tonight?
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Military Hammer on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:51 am

Shocking!!!! Sorry, not having that!!! Game was there for the taking at half time and Moyes did not make the decision. I do not want Moyes here next season, he is crawling past the line and only just! Sign of a good manager is to shake it up, changes things when it’s not working whatever the time on the clock and he just isn’t a good manager imho. The game was screaming out for someone to play off Marko very early on, but he only rolled the dice when we went a goal down and if anyone reckons they didn’t see their goal coming, they are blatantly lying or deluding themselves. I was crying out for Mario and Fernades to be hooked and Chico and Lanzini to come on in the first half, then low and behold, when they do, the ball sticks and better football is produced!!! Can see why Pep drop kicked Hart, too slow distribution and never looks to play the left or right side outlet, just the 50/50 ball straight down the middle! If we don’t drop this season, it will be next without massive investment and that just ain’t going to happen Ladies and Gents!!!!
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Jumby on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:55 am

Allardyce played 4-6-0 in this fixture, four and a half years ago, we lost 1-0. We're progressing #nextlevel
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby rsnwhu on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:58 am

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43791859
Scroll down for Gabbidon’s input.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Jumby on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:03 am

Sutton didn't hold back :lol:
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Peaches on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:42 am

This was a must not lose match, we were the better team, and if not for a couple of close off side decisions and Hart’s blinder we would have won. I also thought that Michael Oliver was Stoke’s best player....Chicharito’s disallowed goal would have been given if it was against us. 100% guaranteed... and Fernades disallowed goal was given against us vs. Bournemouth this year, Arsenal last year and Newcastle the year before, because their players in an identical position were deemed to be not interfering with play.

Stoke are playing for the premier league lives, and while on paper we should have won, Man U should have beaten West Brom and Arsenal should have beaten Newcastle. I thought Stoke played very well defensively and set up very well with Bauer amd Sobhi to counter us with pace. If we overcommitted we would have been ripe for the counter as Zabaleta is just so slow. In fact he was almost as much to blame for Stoke’s goal as Hart, because he played Crouch on side, lost him and didn’t react.
It is abundantly clear we need upgrade in goal at right back and in midfield, because we can’t take advantage of our attacking players without being exposed.
Last edited by Peaches on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby kayahammer on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:22 am

Jumby wrote:Allardyce played 4-6-0 in this fixture, four and a half years ago, we lost 1-0. We're progressing #nextlevel


We are indeed. :lol:
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Status Kev on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:10 am

Peaches wrote:This was a must not lose match, we were the better team, and if not for a couple of close off side decisions and Hart’s blinder we would have won. I also thought that Michael Oliver was Stoke’s best player....Chicharito’s disallowed goal would have been given if it was against us. 100% guaranteed... and Fernades disallowed goal was given against us vs. Bournemouth this year, Arsenal last year and Newcastle the year before, because their players in an identical position were deemed to be not interfering with play.

Stoke are playing for the premier league lives, and while on paper we should have won, Man U should have beaten West Brom and Arsenal should have beaten Newcastle. I thought Stoke played very well defensively and set up very well with Bauer amd Sobhi to counter us with pace. If we overcommitted we would have been ripe for the counter as Zabaleta is just so slow. In fact he was almost as much to blame for Stoke’s goal as Hart, because he played Crouch on side, lost him and didn’t react.
It is abundantly clear we need upgrade in goal at right back and in midfield, because we can’t take advantage of our attacking players without being exposed.


Sensible post. Didn't think we played that badly. Stoke are battling for their lives and defended well hoping to nick a late goal which they did. 3 marginal disallowed goals and a stonewalled penalty when Carroll was wrestled to the ground. A good point in the end though which keeps us well above the drop zone. I'll settle for 3 against L'Arse on Sunday.
Apart from the goal I though Zabletta was ok.
Big shout for Declan Rice though. Superb performance.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby BondsoBob on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:07 am

BondsoBob wrote:I reckon a boring 0-0 or 1-1. We will limp over the line. :o


So predictable.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby steps on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:46 am

Very poor from Moyes. Exactly the same set up as last week at Chelsea, then he makes the exact same sub only he left it far too late this week. Waiting until the 75th minute to make a change has cost us the three points here (well, and Joe Hart’s howler of course). But those tactics of flooding the midfield and stifling the game may of worked away from home against a better team, this was Stoke at home though who hadn’t scored an away goal since October and were crying out to be attacked.

Disappointed.

Hart and Moyes should both be on their way at the end of the season.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Puff Daddy on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:47 am

There was one truly awful passage of play from us around 10 minutes into the second half, when we attempted a passing move in midfield. About four players were involved, Noble and Kouyate, being the worst culprits and not one of them ever had any control over the ball. Passes played fractionally behind the intended player, ugly bobbling balls, some of them played with the sole, or heel of the foot, scuffed misplaced passes, aimed at a players thigh, unsurprisingly, we made very little progress up field and the whole thing broke down and the ball eventually went out of play. It was shocking to watch, even painful on the eye
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Patito on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:06 am

More strikers = more goals. We should have played a 1-1-8 formation we’d have won 5-0.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Graza on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:28 am

Peaches wrote:This was a must not lose match, we were the better team, and if not for a couple of close off side decisions and Hart’s blinder we would have won. I also thought that Michael Oliver was Stoke’s best player....Chicharito’s disallowed goal would have been given if it was against us. 100% guaranteed... and Fernades disallowed goal was given against us vs. Bournemouth this year, Arsenal last year and Newcastle the year before, because their players in an identical position were deemed to be not interfering with play.

Sadly you are spot on with Oliver. Every blade of grass trip was awarded to them, every breaking foul by them had no follow up card, he refused to take control of the game and stop them breaking it up. The half a dozen (or more) free kicks we got outside the box resulted in just 1 yellow card. We gave away about 3, and 1 yellow card. Now none were nasty but it was persistent and designed to break up the play rather than anything else.

Bringing us back to the set pieces, how woefully ineffectual were we? Yes Creswell put a couple on target at a nice height for some highlight reel saves but they were comfortable enough. The short corner never worked once but we did it over and over again, if we are going to do that just love the center halves on the half way line, pointless utterly pointless.

We've played much worse this season, but we got it wrong last night. For me the difference was the lack of pressure on the ball, compare the opening twenty of us versus Southampton against last night and it's stark that we simply didn't have the same energy in our play to create the pressure which created the mistakes and our goals.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby MB on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:32 am

steps wrote:Very poor from Moyes. Exactly the same set up as last week at Chelsea, then he makes the exact same sub only he left it far too late this week. Waiting until the 75th minute to make a change has cost us the three points here (well, and Joe Hart’s howler of course). But those tactics of flooding the midfield and stifling the game may of worked away from home against a better team, this was Stoke at home though who hadn’t scored an away goal since October and were crying out to be attacked.


Exactly the same setup as an easy win against Southampton too. Difference is that Stoke set out to kill the game. How many fouls?

If a team sets up not to play then we don’t have the playmaker needed to break them down. Throwing on extra strikers is all well and good in a last 20 minutes kind of way but it doesn’t work when we do it from the start.

It all comes back to a squad which lacks quality in defence so we play five at the back. Lacks quality in midfield so we play three and that leaves us with two players who have to turn up if we are going to get a result. If we don’t setup that way then we are effectively giving the opposition a two goal start.

That isn’t to say that Moyes couldn’t have tried something different a bit earlier. His stubbornness is frustrating.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Clacton-ammer on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:41 am

We are not very good, but Stoke are bloody awful! Stoke came from the draw / clinch a scrappy one nil, they almost got their one nil win.

How Cameron was not booked for consistent fouling I do not know!

We were by far the better side, all be it, still not very good. Sooner Stoke drop down the better.

I forgot how much AC makes a difference to the crowd (us) and opposition, he is a menace, I know not value for money as his thread states, but he scares the oppo and gives the crowd a buzz, and that was one very tidy finish.

Agreed that we should have changed earlier, they were there for the taking, but Jesus wept, they were poor, and we were not good enough to capitalise, says everything you need to know about our current team currently.

Mario, a very technically gifted player, but one of those players that needs good players around him. Where as Arnie makes things happen by himself, even without one of our players within 30 yards at times!Unless we invest heavily in the summer, there is no point in keeping him.

I am so pissed off this morning, nightmare journey back, and we couldn't beat one of the poorest sides I have seen for many a season.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby wobble on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:44 am

Puff Daddy wrote:There was one truly awful passage of play from us around 10 minutes into the second half, when we attempted a passing move in midfield. About four players were involved, Noble and Kouyate, being the worst culprits and not one of them ever had any control over the ball. Passes played fractionally behind the intended player, ugly bobbling balls, some of them played with the sole, or heel of the foot, scuffed misplaced passes, aimed at a players thigh, unsurprisingly, we made very little progress up field and the whole thing broke down and the ball eventually went out of play. It was shocking to watch, even painful on the eye


Agreed

These player are cheap, they have very little in the way of ball control, passing, pace and football intelligence, they may occasionally play some football pleasing to the eye but the rest of time it's poor.

Other teams know this, they just sit tight on us or close us down quickly and because of our poor quality on the ball we lose it. It's all to ****ing easy.

This all goes back to poor investment and poor recruitment.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby Hugh Jargon II on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:55 am

Moyes has got one of the weakest defences and midfields in the league in my opinion.

We were dead certs for relegation when we failed to get carvalho.

If we survive he has proved himself as a top manager I think. Too good for the dildo's I suspect.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby szola on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:10 am

We played the worst defence in the league. We needed a win to be able to take on the next few games without the fear of relegation hanging over us.

The xG of this game was 0.81 - vs. 1.41

Shocking
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby duncanio on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:12 am

iirc, Butland also fumbled similarly to Hart but we were too slow and uninterested to make the follow up.
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Re: West Ham United v Stoke City: Match Thread

Postby S-H on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:14 am

How good is Ogbonna by the way, we'd be down already without him.

Having him there, is helping Rice's development massively.
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