Centre midfield is still the issue, and 1 player in particular.Cuenca 'ammer wrote:not trying to knock Pellers
some of the games have been better, some no worse and some just the same crap as under Bilic and Moyes
with better talent
I've scratched my head to almost the skull underneath trying to figure it out.
but I cannot.
better keeper but letting in goals for fun
better CB's but letting in goals for fun
a true DM but letting in goals for fun
:
Manuel Pellegrini: West Ham United’s 17th manager
Moderator: Gnome
- carnage
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
- brooking1966
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Leave the wise ole head to set the clubs infrastructure, style of play, attract players basically steady the ship. Very resourceful, multilingual, manager who can eventually become a great GM/Technical Director for us in the future. For now steady the ship & back him in the transfer mkt.
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
* & * tell us there's 25M available plus any player sales.brooking1966 wrote:Leave the wise ole head to set the clubs infrastructure, style of play, attract players basically steady the ship. Very resourceful, multilingual, manager who can eventually become a great GM/Technical Director for us in the future. For now steady the ship & back him in the transfer mkt.
we won't get much over about 30M for the dregs we are letting go.
that's hardly backing the manager I would have thought.....................
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
or in the inimitable words of one David Byrne "Same as it ever was, same as it ever was......"
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
You know what I mean. From 3-0 we were all over them. We must have had about 90% possession and created loads of chances. If we had escaped with a 3-3 draw, which was a perfecrky feasible outcome based on balance of play, and were now in the semi final, no-one would be going on about throwing the game or lack of motivation.prophet:marginal wrote:
The second half was a 2-2 draw! Absolutely murdered?! You're having a laugh.
Of course it is all ifs and buts but Wolves escaped with an undeserved draw at the same stage after an awful performance against a relegation threatened division 3 team and we didn't.
Fine margins
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
crouchy
and if my auntie had bollcoks she'd be my uncle...……...
and if my auntie had bollcoks she'd be my uncle...……...
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Wolves conceded half the goals we did.Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
You know what I mean. From 3-0 we were all over them. We must have had about 90% possession and created loads of chances. If we had escaped with a 3-3 draw, which was a perfecrky feasible outcome based on balance of play, and were now in the semi final, no-one would be going on about throwing the game or lack of motivation.
Of course it is all ifs and buts but Wolves escaped with an undeserved draw at the same stage after an awful performance against a relegation threatened division 3 team and we didn't.
Fine margins
We didn't have a shot on target in the first half and came back out onto the pitch in pyjamas and slippers.
5 minutes later, their third was already on the scoreboard.
I didn't watch the Wolves match, but I think you're trying to put too much finesse on yer margins, mate. This is after all the team that has also knocked out LFC & MUFC
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Smonnie this is the counter argument that I am hearing consistently from yourself, hammerman11 and others. The reasons I can't get behind this argument and support it myself are as follows:Smonnie wrote: I actually think our squad has the greatest resale value it has had for a long time, and that we have squad players we could move on for some money without great detriment to the team.
At the risk of sounding like hammerman11, and without saying I'd want them all to go:
£12m Ogbonna (Italy)
£10m Obiang (Italy)
£5m Fernandes (Italy)
£10m Antonio (England)
£5m Snodgrass (England)
£5m Perez (Spain)
£12m Chicharito (Europe)
£20m Arnautovic (anywhere)
£5m Hugill (Championship)
That's £84m. If we sold half of that value there, supplemented it with some TV money and brought in 3 £20m players, we would have a better squad.
1) We tend to overvalue our own players and even when we make conservative estimates, which I think you tried to do, could still be well off. Who's to say we receive anything for Perez, for example? I won't go line by line that would be a waste of time but I think you get the gist.
2) Were we to get these fees we know very well that fees for players are paid over time so even if we got £84m that money would be paid to us over a year or two or three and not all immediately.
3) This argument typically, as you have done, flogs off nearly half the squad (9 in your case) and presumes to spend the money on two or three world class players. We are already thin due to injuries. Where are the other 6 to 8 signings going to come from? All freebies and loans? Even for Sully that's a lot of freebies and loans.
4) Were we to raise £84m all at once which I have already explained is essentially impossible, why would we trust Sully to spend it all and not pocket any? My hope is that we have a buyer in 2021 when the tax is lifted, but if our budget is £25m + sales than perhaps an agreement is already in place and Sully does not feel he needs to increase transfer spending to thereby increase the final sale price of the club. Perhaps the owner has said "spend a minimum of..." that Sully and he came to agreement.
Or it's all a smokescreen...
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
boston
agree somewhat with you but I think smonnie isn't too far out with his evaluations
Oggie - I would think we'd struggle to get anywhere near 12M at his age and from Italy. could be wrong
Obiang - as above about 7M I reckon
Fernandez - agree
Antonio - tough one but I would rather keep him for that money as I don't see us finding someone for a similar amount
Snoddy - as above - squad players for 5M though are very few and far between
Perez - 1-2M from some small club in Spain - most clubs in Spain are short of cash
Chicharito - would like to keep him for the amount we might recover but would he stay as a perpetual sub
Arnie - you ain't buying anyone who can score 10-15 goals for 20M
Hugill - cannot even get in a Boro side right now but we might get up to 5M based on etc. etc. etc
Oggie has played loads of games for us, Reid hasn't played in 18 months by the time next season comes around. could not replace for that amount
Obiang - let him go 7M
Fernandez has a buy out figure if they want to keep him 5M
Perez 2M
Hugil 3-5M
that's a total of about 15M approx. but if we can get max figures in maybe 20M
as boston says, we can't let 9 go and only get 3 in. remember that Adrian will walk so we need a back up goalie and if you include Zaba that would be 12 outs including A.C.
Yarmo and Sanchez back from season ending surgery.
Wilshere - will he ever play for us again - regularly or otherwise ?
we'll have about 40M or thereabouts (plus wages saved) but agents incoming fees will knock some money out.
that's equal to 1 Anderson
agree somewhat with you but I think smonnie isn't too far out with his evaluations
Oggie - I would think we'd struggle to get anywhere near 12M at his age and from Italy. could be wrong
Obiang - as above about 7M I reckon
Fernandez - agree
Antonio - tough one but I would rather keep him for that money as I don't see us finding someone for a similar amount
Snoddy - as above - squad players for 5M though are very few and far between
Perez - 1-2M from some small club in Spain - most clubs in Spain are short of cash
Chicharito - would like to keep him for the amount we might recover but would he stay as a perpetual sub
Arnie - you ain't buying anyone who can score 10-15 goals for 20M
Hugill - cannot even get in a Boro side right now but we might get up to 5M based on etc. etc. etc
Oggie has played loads of games for us, Reid hasn't played in 18 months by the time next season comes around. could not replace for that amount
Obiang - let him go 7M
Fernandez has a buy out figure if they want to keep him 5M
Perez 2M
Hugil 3-5M
that's a total of about 15M approx. but if we can get max figures in maybe 20M
as boston says, we can't let 9 go and only get 3 in. remember that Adrian will walk so we need a back up goalie and if you include Zaba that would be 12 outs including A.C.
Yarmo and Sanchez back from season ending surgery.
Wilshere - will he ever play for us again - regularly or otherwise ?
we'll have about 40M or thereabouts (plus wages saved) but agents incoming fees will knock some money out.
that's equal to 1 Anderson
Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
On the mobile so will reply properly tomorrow but I specifically said about letting half of them go.
Clearly with some it is one or the other, eg Antonio or Snodgrass; Arnautovic or Chicharito. With others it is about whether keeping them as squad players is worth more to us than the cash recouped.
I'm all for you ripping my post apart, BH, but perhaps read it first!
Clearly with some it is one or the other, eg Antonio or Snodgrass; Arnautovic or Chicharito. With others it is about whether keeping them as squad players is worth more to us than the cash recouped.
I'm all for you ripping my post apart, BH, but perhaps read it first!
- BostonHammer
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Wasn't trying to rip it apart just a counter argument. I just can't see us replacing 8 or 9 players adequately with 80m.Smonnie wrote:On the mobile so will reply properly tomorrow but I specifically said about letting half of them go.
Clearly with some it is one or the other, eg Antonio or Snodgrass; Arnautovic or Chicharito. With others it is about whether keeping them as squad players is worth more to us than the cash recouped.
I'm all for you ripping my post apart, BH, but perhaps read it first!
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
I would keep Hernandez, if he wants to stay, Antonio and Fernandez.
again DM is the priority as we are too exposed with just rice in there. noble cant get close to anyone any longer, obiang is too inconsistent and snoddy is getting on now along with sanchez.
yarmolenko to come back from injury hopefully for next season but I doubt we will see anymore of wilshere than we have this season. such a shame as he is talented but the gambe has not paid off.
reid wont play much idf at all but we have no chance of shifting him.
If Adrian goes then goes about trot as number 2 ?
again DM is the priority as we are too exposed with just rice in there. noble cant get close to anyone any longer, obiang is too inconsistent and snoddy is getting on now along with sanchez.
yarmolenko to come back from injury hopefully for next season but I doubt we will see anymore of wilshere than we have this season. such a shame as he is talented but the gambe has not paid off.
reid wont play much idf at all but we have no chance of shifting him.
If Adrian goes then goes about trot as number 2 ?
Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
But I'm only suggesting letting half that number go? This is the third time I've said it now.BostonHammer wrote: Wasn't trying to rip it apart just a counter argument. I just can't see us replacing 8 or 9 players adequately with 80m.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Don't worry Smonnie, Boston has trouble comprehending transfer talk, in March.
- BostonHammer
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
You said "That's £84m. If we sold half of that value there, supplemented it with some TV money and brought in 3 £20m players, we would have a better squad."Smonnie wrote:
But I'm only suggesting letting half that number go? This is the third time I've said it now.
Whether we sell all 9 for £84m or sell 4 or 5 of them for £42m and we also use the funds to buy "3 £20m players" we end up with the same ratio of only having replaced a third to half of the players. You are also still assuming that we would immediately receive all £42m immediately rather than in staggered payments.
Let's say we somehow convince the clubs to pay us quickly and we do get half of that up front. We've now sold 5 players and have about £50m to spend. That's about £10m per player which can only be a figure for an aging player or a punt on an unknown talent.
I guess I see your logic now that I've done more math, but it is all very underwhelming. I'm also not sure there are great £20m players anymore I think the inflation has caused that to rise to closer to 30.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
To be fair to the man I wasnt over keen when he joined but I am very happy with his tenure so far. He appears the Gentleman, which is a good reflection on our club and I applaud the style of football he is endeavouring to bring. He has had one (main) transfer window, that I would count as positive, set against a crippling injury crisis throughout the season. It is only now that I feel he is getting a full view of his squad, their individual and collective attributes and therefore what he really needs moving forward. I think he will get a decent budget for the next transfer window and more headroom on the salary front once obvious high earners leave. I think his biggest problem will be keeping those he (we) wish to retain. Onwards and upwards I hope. Personally for next season I would take a continuance of our attacking style plus more consistency and a top 8 finish. Higher I hope, but I would be happy with style over pragmatism and gradual improvement.
Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Don’t forget we have to sell these players first before we buy, most clubs buy late in the window giving us less time to get replacements, or we missed out to other clubs getting in early.
What ever happens we just know Sullivan is dicking us about again.
What ever happens we just know Sullivan is dicking us about again.
Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
Our payments would also be staggered so I'm not bothered about that. Sullivan is the master of the payment plan.BostonHammer wrote:
You said "That's £84m. If we sold half of that value there, supplemented it with some TV money and brought in 3 £20m players, we would have a better squad."
Whether we sell all 9 for £84m or sell 4 or 5 of them for £42m and we also use the funds to buy "3 £20m players" we end up with the same ratio of only having replaced a third to half of the players. You are also still assuming that we would immediately receive all £42m immediately rather than in staggered payments.
Let's say we somehow convince the clubs to pay us quickly and we do get half of that up front. We've now sold 5 players and have about £50m to spend. That's about £10m per player which can only be a figure for an aging player or a punt on an unknown talent.
I guess I see your logic now that I've done more math, but it is all very underwhelming. I'm also not sure there are great £20m players anymore I think the inflation has caused that to rise to closer to 30.
If we moved players like Hugill and Fernandes on we wouldn't feel any pain. Ogbonna is third choice CB. We will only sell one of Arnautovic and Chicharito. Only one of Snodgrass or Antonio.
If we four of those, we would see somewhere between £25m and £45m in revenues.
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- hammer1975
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager
This. This. Thiswobble wrote:Don’t forget we have to sell these players first before we buy, most clubs buy late in the window giving us less time to get replacements, or we missed out to other clubs getting in early.
.
This is one of the most pertinent points - often overlooked when people are drawing false comfort from sales proceeds creating a summer budget.