⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:04 am

Pat

you raise a great point...my speech to the kids that I coached was "at least we are creating chances...'

trouble is for the past several years (well since Dimi left) we have had trouble converting....

other than Arnie we fail to capitalise on chances created consistently and we cannot expect him to do it all...

someone else has to step up...and has had to since (and before) Payet...

thought that Chicharito could and would have been that player and to be fair he has done well when played. trouble is he has never fit into any manager's plans or systems we have implemented.

our scattergun approach to recruiting shows up in this area...sign Carroll and we can't find anyone to consistently provide him with the type of ball he wanted.

sign Chicharito and fail to have a system that fits him.

move Arnie and leave him isolated up front and hopes he creates for himself.

sign Anderson and (imvho) play him in a position that doesn't provide Arnie with the type of ball he needs.

etc. etc. etc.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby hammerman11 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:16 am

we need to find a solution to the stop arnie and you stop west ham issue. we have no other goal threat.

nothing on the bench screams goal threat. Antonio and perez have been poor. Hernandez is the one but he has been ill and doesn't fit the system we start with.

play a 442 and arnie gets moved to the wing a bit with Hernandez as the central striker. a role he is not good at. it is a problem that MP will have to solve. at city he had a lot of goal scoring midfielders. we have noble rice obiang who wont get 10 between them.
Anderson may get 5 and yarmolenko around the same.


defenders will contribute maybe 5 goals if lucky 2 each for diop and Balbuena . zab may get one as may Arthur.

so we rely on arnie to hit 20 goals and the rest of the team to match him .

getting hernandez to play with this team is the key but I cant see him start games.
forget carroll as he will be injured after his latest comeback and goal !
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Turns to Stone on Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:32 am

It actually reminded me of the game we wuld occasionally win with Allardyce.

We all should be happier to have moved awau from that and its clear that this is a side that is growing. I saod on the night its these games that we miss Wilshere and in particular Lanzini but we do have a problem in that we have 3 central midfielders and no more. Obiang was poor and Noble couldnt get a hold of the game and the only way to change things was to bring on two wongers for them.

Frustrrating stuff, but in the long term id atually actually rather be losing games llaying like that than winning them like Brighton did. Hats off to them though as Hughton has done a great job there and they are doing what they need to do. As we did a few seasons ago.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby the pink palermo on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:03 am

I think people are being unfairly harsh on Brighton. What are they supposed to do ? Roll over ? Wave us through ?

WE lacked the guile to break them down, draw them out and get behind them. That's down to us not them.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Skandi Brudson on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:15 am

Turns to Stone wrote:.... Obiang was poor and Noble couldnt get a hold of the game and the only way to change things was to bring on two wongers for them.
....


I read that as ‘two wrong ‘uns’ first!

Were you in ‘Allo ‘Allo?
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Patito on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:21 am

They’re all valid questions Cuenc’ and that’s why for me we are still massively a work in progress. It takes time to build a balanced side that can play attractive football. Despite the Brighton result, some aspects of the performance were really positive (IMO) and that coupled with the previous 4 performances show we’re heading in the right direction under El Pel, as long as we make those improvements and find answers to a few of those issues you raised!
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:04 am

Just watched the goal again on mOTD with the benefit of slowing it down and pausing and really it came down to giving the ball away and then bad decision making aftet that.

IMHO Rice should have made the decision to track the runner steaming through cebtrally from midfield that Diop eventually decided to move across to cover, which would have left both Diop and Masuaku to deal with the main threat of Murray. The player Rice did decide to track, albeit casually, was the least threat of all.

Quick decision making that is hard to get right in those situations but would have meant full back not isolated against Murray.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:07 am

Having now watched the somewhat short highlights, on MotD, I make the following suggestions:

1. Whatever you want to say about the loss of the ball, initially, when Noble plays a heavy ball to Yarmolenko, nothing excuses the doziest possible response from Masuaku to what happened. There were two players queuing up for a loose ball in the box, and they were standing in front of him. To neither get close, nor attempt to challenge, makes the goal principally his fault. And his bizarre gesture, looking to blame someone else, as the net rippled, only serves to make that point.

2. Balbuena's miss was in part caused by his being rolled, probably legitimately, by the defender, as he moved towards the ball. Our set pieces were causing them problems. He was in a good position. Some you win...

3. Interestingly, even though they took some time out to criticise a Huddersfield player for a (pretty shocking) dive, in their match vs Burnley, the highlights from our match didn't even show what arose with Propper, before he was subbed off. I watched the match in the pub. Of the people watching, who didn't support either team, most expressed disbelief about what had arisen. It was clear, on slo-mo replay on Friday, that he held his head/face on the floor, but then limped off the pitch! Sean Dyche expressed a worry that even kids are doing it these days and he may have a point. In truth, all teams have players who have one eye on the ref, so as to accentuate a nudge into a foul, or a minor foul into a major crisis. A certain Mr Hernandez comes to mind.

4. Arnautovic should have got on target his last effort. It was about 10x easier than the one he steered towards the bottom corner from the first half corner.

No cause for alarm, but the team that beat us on Friday, was, of the 7 we've thus far played in the league, the weakest by some distance.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby jhammers on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:43 am

Was very surprised at Brighton's approach, i thought they were a better team than '10 men behind the ball and dive at every opportunity'.
Was like playing an Allardyce team. I'm personally happy we've tried to play good football and not resort to those tactics, wouldn't want to watch that every week.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby steps on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:57 am

A frustrating game. Up until Murray scored his obligitory goal against us it was an ok game but then they shut up shop, sat back and let us play but the thing is we didn’t have the creativity to break them down. This is where we definitely miss Manu. if Wilshere was bought as a stop gap for an injured Lanzini it was a deadful decision as we have two attacking midfielders now on the treatment table (saying this I’m still not sure I would class Wilshere as an AM.)

Will concur with what someone else said that the game just needed a touch of brilliance on our behalf, which we clearly did not have on the night. Our free kick taking was woeful, Anderson ballooned one IIRC and why wasn’t Snodgrass allowed to take that one at the end? He used to score plenty for Norwich from free kicks and actually did it against us once albeit woeful trademark positioning from Jaaskainen.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby arlhe on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:04 pm

We were the better team but got beaten 1-0 by a team that put in a performance Allardyce would have been proud of.

Sometimes these things happen but I wouldn't be making changes to the team because of it. Stability is important.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby sendô on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:06 pm

Credit to Brighton and Hughton, they knew how to set up against us, and got the better of us in midfield and packed the defence.

We were lacking someone like Wilshere or Lanzini in midfield to unpick the lock, or else a Carroll up front for us to rain crosses onto.

A proper West Ham style defeat that one given the teams we'd picked points up from in the previous 3 league games.

Not one to dwell on.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:48 pm

Gonna buck the trend - I felt we picked them open quite regularly, but often played the wrong pass or failed to make the right run having exposed them.

Image 1

Image

balbuena's won the header - Rice and Yarmy both being fouled, but who is in the Nolan/Ayew position? the ball ran all the way through to Obiang. Brighton are defending exactly the way Burnley do - look at the bodies clustered by the goalline.

Image 2

Image

Marvellous pick out by Anderson - our best player on the night - great run by Zab's, good block on Arnie - but obiang still gets a free hit from about 15 yards from the rebound but puts it over the bar

Image 3

Image

Anderson's murdered the full back, but no one's attacking the back post and the goal is wide open.

Image 4

Image

Anderson has worked a smart free kick to Arnie in space - he drills the ball low to Balbuena at the near post, look at the space at the back, especially the on rushing Yarmolenko

Image 5


Image

We attempted to cut it back to Antonio - it could have been slid across, and again(just out of shot) another player is arriving unmarked at the back

Image 6

Image

Noble's slid it across the six yard box, no one has attacked the area...Arnie actually pulled back into the same area as Perez, when a run the other way would be a tap in.

We should have won comfortably; they created very little until we opened up late on and most of their efforts were outside the area.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby the pink palermo on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:52 pm

How many actual saves did the Brighton keeper make ?
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:55 pm

the pink palermo wrote:How many actual saves did the Brighton keeper make ?


Just a few, but that doesn't mean we didn't create chances.

The above are all chances.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby thejackhammer on Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:33 pm

the pink palermo wrote:How many actual saves did the Brighton keeper make ?


I think what Bubbles is saying, as I’ve said in this thread, our final decision making was poor throughout the game. It always seemed to be the wrong ball, the wrong option being chosen.

Maybe it’s a case of Brighton knowing what our plan usually is and exploiting it by defending those avenues, but a touch more creativity or a different option and we’d have won that game. There were many times when watching that we played one ball when a different ball would have been an easy chance.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby mattyD on Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:45 pm

The analysis is correct on that nearly always there is no one gambling or hitting the front post for crosses. Argues is often outside the box when a cross comes in. Not enough bodies forward and not enough movement when the ball can be played in.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:43 pm

There's a good chance Hernandez may have been in the 'missing man' position in Bubbles' excellent examples
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby mattyD on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:47 pm

Trouble is Hernandez doesn't link play or hold it up.... or offer much else apart from poaching. So it's almost impossible to find a place in the 1st 11 for him. Has to be a sub.
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Re: ⚽ Brighton & Hove Albion v West Ham Utd: match thread (5/10)

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:49 pm

He doesn't for West Ham, but he did for Mexico in the World Cup. Is it the man or the system?
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