WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: bristolhammerfc, sicknote, -DL-, Rio, Gnome, chalks, the pink palermo

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Up the Junction on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:20 pm

Mitten wrote:...if there’s no agenda but just to just to dig out to WHUSB then why is the WHUSC implicated?

It's a reasonable question Mitten, though I'm not the one to answer it. :thup:
User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
 
Posts: 50898
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:03 am

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Big George on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:37 pm

I've been away this weekend so apologies for the lack of response.

Where to start:

West Ham is the only club in the Premier League without any meaningful structured dialogue with supporters.

For the last few years they have pointed to the SAB as their dialogue, a panel where they have imposed NDAs, chosen members by patronage, forbade people on the SAB from actually talking to supporter about significant issues and excluded people who have asked difficult questions.

This SAB has been constantly used as a cover for series on unpopular decisions which has led us to the unfortunate circumstances.

At the post Burnley SAB there was a genuine atmosphere for change, talks about elected members, a panel that would reflect the fan base (for example, corporate and bond holders have a proportionate presence, boindholders have two, each lounge/area in corp has a rep, East Stand has one for the whole 20k)

The club asked for views which we submitted and nothing changed.

They have come back with exactly the same model as the SAB with a name change. No elected members, still loads of corporates and crucially for us, restrictions on whether we could consult our members.

They tried to rope in the FSF & Supporters Direct to help choose the new SAB members but they rejected that opportunity it as it was fatally flawed.

to answer some questions direct
Mitten wrote:Agree Guv but if there’s no agenda but just to just to dig out to WHUSB then why is the WHUSC implicated?


We're not digging out anyone, we're trying to stop the club from making the same mistake as it has for the last 7 years.

Mitten wrote:I’ve sent you a PM George not that is anything of your business


And I'm sorry I didn't get back to you, I was away, I've replied and happy to pick it up but I'm afraid it is the business of every person who cares about how supporters are treated at and by West Ham.

They have selected a panel to choose the SAB of which the supporter's club has agreed to take part. I have no quibble with that but I think it fair to point out that the SC has taken money from the board, the very same people this new SAB is supposed to hold to account.

I asked the question and your reply was quite spikey.I think you have done a brilliant job at Stour Space, I was member last season and was also a member at Castle Street, I want you to succeed.

However this is a different kettle of fish, the only supporters group the club has found to take part in the process has depended on money from the club. You can't be impartial and independent in that scenario.

I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just pointing out the obvious.

Elsewhere

mywhufc wrote:i had questioned George, fellow whuisa committee member, on a whuisa thread why he had been so fast to announce 1 committee members resignation but failed to tell the members the elected vice chairman head decided to take a step back. possibly because he’s georges mate.
Now if george wants to use KUMB to do WHUISA work then surely he’s entitled to be questioned about it on here.


Sean is a very high profile supporter who election to the committee divided opinion. He resigned, not stepped back, unequivocally and permanently so we let people know. I can't see how this is an issue.

I wish he hadn't done it, he was democratically elected but he did and for a reason that was a matter of live debate, our participation in the new SAB. It was big news. That's why I told people. There was no indication that Sean wanted it not to be disclosed

The other matter was someone taking a break to resolve a personal issue. He asked for privacy, he will return. I respect that, I hope you can too. You have my number, I know you spoke to Northern Iron about this over weekend.

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:Is there really a whuisa, whuisb and whuisc?


No. WHUISA is the affiliate of the FSF, a broad based group of WH fans which aims to democratic and transparent

The club have rebadged the SAB as the WHUSB. I don't think even they have got the brass neck to call it "independent".

WHUSC @ Castle Street was where this version of WHUISA kicked off in 2016. They continue to thrive in Stour Space.

simonpaulthomas wrote:I’d imagine WHUISA are questioning the “validity” of this all new SAB as it’s obviously a spiteful reaction to them?


We're questioning it's validity and not joining it because it's going to change anything. Trying to get the club to talk to fans in meaningful manner is exhausting, as an organisation they react to gentle criticism in a way that would make Putin blush.

Frankly, I'd rather be spending my West Ham energy on anything else and just spend my time with mates, watching football but they are trying to repeat the same mistake over and over again.

Never has the relationship between the board and the fans been worse, this new SAB isn't going to change things.
User avatar
Big George
 
Posts: 10173
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:59 pm
Location: http://www.whuisa.org/

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby HeadHammerShark on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:39 pm

clawhammer wrote:It is really getting like The Life of Brian on here.
I am a member of WHUISA because I believe in the concept of an independent organisation representing and trying to improve the lot of the fans. I have no connection with anybody else. I am beginning to question what WHUISA has actually accomplished so far because,apart from helping some guy get off from a mistaken identity rap, I am struggling. Recruiting a lot of members in itself is not an achievement it is what you do with it that counts and so far that amounts to not a lot. People will start drifting away if we are not careful. The


Not a personal dig, because I understand the sentiment, but this would be music to the club's ears. I will leave it to the WHUISA guys to answer your question directly, but there has been a very obvious decision by the club not engage with WHUISA, hence this point being raised. As fans we have paid to join an organisation which is affiliated with and recognised by all relevant supporters associations, have elected representatives and the club have still refused to engage with them. That is outrageous, and directing your ire at WHUISA is to put it in the wrong place.

Neither Karren Brady or Carlton Cole should be choosing who represents West Ham fans, because that is a job for West Ham fans.

While I'll confess to ignorance about the broader circumstances regarding the Supporters Club, it is surely relevant if they are receiving money from the club. Nobody can effectively represent fans if they are at risk of getting their funding cut for not toeing the line.

The birth of WHUISA has been challenging for all sorts of reasons but I simply cannot understand why anybody would prefer a handpicked group over a democratically elected independent body. The question shouldn't be "what have WHUISA achieved?", it should be "Why won't the club speak to our representatives?".
HeadHammerShark
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:04 pm
Location: http://thehlist.blogspot.co.uk/

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:53 pm

@ Big George - An excellent post , exactly what I would expect from WHUISA.

No personal digs, no attacks on other groups, straightforward to the point stuff.

The issue, as you rightly point out is the lack of meaningful dialogue with supporters via elected representatives.

The club needs to abandon it's farcical focus group based approach.

Personally I've no issue with the supporters club having their voice heard either, sure they look compromised due to the funding issue but I'm not going to knock them for doing what they had to do to keep afloat. I'm sure they are a well meaning bunch, and like you I had many a happy hour in the supporters club at Castle street.

Having said that I'd welcome, as a paid up member, some statement from WHUISA as to what exactly they wish to see the club change, what policies it will be advancing and what change it is seeking.

I'm not looking for a manifesto, just a few bullet points so the members can feel the committee is moving the thing in the right direction for supporters.

All the stuff with the FSF, SD and the rest is fine, but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking how does that help me get a cheaper pie at the ground or avoid an absurd booking fee or get a late train back from a grim Northern town in midweek etc.
User avatar
the pink palermo
Huge noggin
 
Posts: 38892
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Sexy football not sexist football

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Ozza on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:05 pm

George, cheers bud good post and thanks for summarising :thup:

I think Pinky has a point in regard to what are the points that WHUISA are trying to achieve, it might really help give clarity and direction as well as creating something for people to get behind.

Saying that the RWHF thing was a shocker when the points decided by the group were beer shelves (not that WHUSIA are the same)
User avatar
Ozza
 
Posts: 14060
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:41 pm
Location: Karens Tash

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Mitten on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:19 pm

Big George wrote:
And I'm sorry I didn't get back to you, I was away, I've replied and happy to pick it up but I'm afraid it is the business of every person who cares about how supporters are treated at and by West Ham.

They have selected a panel to choose the SAB of which the supporter's club has agreed to take part. I have no quibble with that but I think it fair to point out that the SC has taken money from the board, the very same people this new SAB is supposed to hold to account.

I asked the question and your reply was quite spikey.I think you have done a brilliant job at Stour Space, I was member last season and was also a member at Castle Street, I want you to succeed.

However this is a different kettle of fish, the only supporters group the club has found to take part in the process has depended on money from the club. You can't be impartial and independent in that scenario.

I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just pointing out the obvious.

Elsewhere



OK, this will be my final word on here on this matter. George, you tweeted and asked for disclosure the sum that the Football Club had sponsored the Supporters Club to the tune of. I don't understand why this is important to you, but that was my response; this is not your business nor should it be in an open forum. It is well known that the Football Club has provided cash to keep the Supporters Club going. It has also been widely reported on the issues that the new committee has had to over come and are still working to provide solutions to. The cash has kept the club going for it's 500 members, nothing more than that. Having seen first hand how desperate things have been, the club would have invariably ceased without this funding.

We were asked to assist in the process for selecting the new committee of the SAB. I personally spent over 3 hours going through the applications and scored the applicants on the basis that I thought were the correct candidates to represent the various demograph, backgrounds and areas in the Stadium that will form the new SB. None of the applicants names were disclosed to me and my scoring was based purely on the applicants statements and answers to set questions.

For what it is worth, I would say that a very high proportion that applied would be absolutely fine as committee members.

So if you are implying that because the SC have received funding from the Football Club, then any favours or non impartiality has happened in this process, on the request of the FC, is very wide of the mark and I really find this distasteful. What benefit is there to anyone in agreeing to do this?

At this stage the SC is not involved in the SB, but as I have said before on here, we are going into this process with an open mind.
Mitten
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:23 pm

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby clawhammer on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:06 pm

the pink palermo wrote:@ Big George - An excellent post , exactly what I would expect from WHUISA.

No personal digs, no attacks on other groups, straightforward to the point stuff.

The issue, as you rightly point out is the lack of meaningful dialogue with supporters via elected representatives.

The club needs to abandon it's farcical focus group based approach.

Personally I've no issue with the supporters club having their voice heard either, sure they look compromised due to the funding issue but I'm not going to knock them for doing what they had to do to keep afloat. I'm sure they are a well meaning bunch, and like you I had many a happy hour in the supporters club at Castle street.

Having said that I'd welcome, as a paid up member, some statement from WHUISA as to what exactly they wish to see the club change, what policies it will be advancing and what change it is seeking.

I'm not looking for a manifesto, just a few bullet points so the members can feel the committee is moving the thing in the right direction for supporters.

All the stuff with the FSF, SD and the rest is fine, but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking how does that help me get a cheaper pie at the ground or avoid an absurd booking fee or get a late train back from a grim Northern town in midweek etc.

It breaks my heart but I agree with most of this. Not sure how the club can be blamed if WHUISA sat no thanks to the SAB...see the title thread....just makes us look petty. Better to engage because if we don’t then nothing will be achieved or will be achieved by the other parties who are involved rendering us irrelevant. Not saying we have to go in and agree with them.
User avatar
clawhammer
 
Posts: 7322
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 8:58 pm

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:36 pm

clawhammer wrote:It breaks my heart but I agree with most of this. Not sure how the club can be blamed if WHUISA sat no thanks to the SAB...see the title thread....just makes us look petty. Better to engage because if we don’t then nothing will be achieved or will be achieved by the other parties who are involved rendering us irrelevant. Not saying we have to go in and agree with them.


Clawhammer you are not following me correctly. What I'm saying is :

I am not in favour of the WHUSB at all. It's a busted flush.

I am in favour of WHUISA being in a dialogue with the club, being formally recognised by the club and it's representatives speaking on behalf of supporters.

I am in favour of the supporters club having a dialogue with the club and representing the members of the supporters club.
User avatar
the pink palermo
Huge noggin
 
Posts: 38892
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Sexy football not sexist football

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Greatest Cockney Rip Off on Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:16 pm

chalks wrote:Sean Shitstone is a complete mug, a lapdog of the owners with that old pisshead Hugh.

That Hugh Hardon, before the season started, hadn’t been to see a WHU match for over 20 years. He’s been gifted a couple of season tickets by Gold this season so has started going, freebie claiming vermin. Gives it the large about being WH and the prick couldn’t find his way to the Boleyn if he tried

Absolute lowlife the pair of them


:lol:

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Proper decision by WHUISA IMO.
User avatar
Greatest Cockney Rip Off
 
Posts: 13834
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:29 am
Location: The oil drum in the Garden of England

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Big George on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:25 pm

Mitten wrote:OK, this will be my final word on here on this matter.


First of all, I'm not implying that you or anyone at the SC lacks integrity or honesty. As I said I am impressed with what you have achieved in the face of some pretty difficult conditions over the last 2 and half years.

But I do think it is useful to disclose the financial relationship with the club in the interests of transparency over the selection process. A lot of people have refused to take part because of the way the club does business with fan groups, you obviously have a different relationship.

I wish everyone at the SC all the best and I hope you continue to thrive.
User avatar
Big George
 
Posts: 10173
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:59 pm
Location: http://www.whuisa.org/

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Big George on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:23 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
Having said that I'd welcome, as a paid up member, some statement from WHUISA as to what exactly they wish to see the club change, what policies it will be advancing and what change it is seeking.

I'm not looking for a manifesto, just a few bullet points so the members can feel the committee is moving the thing in the right direction for supporters.

All the stuff with the FSF, SD and the rest is fine, but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking how does that help me get a cheaper pie at the ground or avoid an absurd booking fee or get a late train back from a grim Northern town in midweek etc.


In relation to Pinky's points about what we want to achieve, its a better deal for all well meaning West Ham fans.

In order to do that we are trying to establish a relationship with he club, but it's tricky as this whole SAB thing shows. Unless you agree to their terms, you're out. I spent two x 1 hour phone calls with a club employee because they said we didn't have the right to email members after a meeting to get feedback. This is the sort of thing you need to do if you want a constructive dialogue,

The paranoia is exhausting.

We are working on trying to get the Stones sorted and we have been involved in some other issues mainly helping individuals with problems at the club. I don't really want to go into those details

In terms of trains, there is something going on. We are working with national organisations to try and sort a deal out. There's also the stuff relating to the new TV deal and the cap on away ticket prices.

We're in this for the long haul, we will keep going, I believe that we are going about things the right way,
User avatar
Big George
 
Posts: 10173
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:59 pm
Location: http://www.whuisa.org/

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Up the Junction on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:29 pm

Big George wrote:The paranoia is exhausting.

:thup:
User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
 
Posts: 50898
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:03 am

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby ornchurch ammer on Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:41 pm

Do we really need a dialogue between the club and supporters.

All I want is for the management of the club to manage and run the club in a professional manner for what is best for the club.

What really can a supporters group add to the management of the club if it is run in a proper manner?

Are GS and B going to act on anything other than trivial suggestions? I don't think so. The fuss in March has proved that. They will continue to rinse the club for their own benefits.

What evidence is there that other clubs actually respond to their SABs? They all might have them and they might have regular meetings but I'd bet that they are nothing more than lip service and a box ticking exercise.
ornchurch ammer
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Diogenes on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:03 pm

Good post George. Lets not forget it is still very early days for WHUISA and it is still the only legitimate democratic voice of supporters. Of course not everything will be perfect amd Im sure there will be many bumps in the road however the club WILL finally listen and engage provided we are persistent and consistent.
User avatar
Diogenes
 
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:05 pm

Diogenes wrote:Good post George. Lets not forget it is still very early days for WHUISA and it is still the only legitimate democratic voice of supporters. Of course not everything will be perfect amd Im sure there will be many bumps in the road however the club WILL finally listen and engage provided we are persistent and consistent.



:D :D :D
User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
 
Posts: 26466
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Albie Beck on Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:23 am

ornchurch ammer wrote:Do we really need a dialogue between the club and supporters.

All I want is for the management of the club to manage and run the club in a professional manner for what is best for the club.

What really can a supporters group add to the management of the club if it is run in a proper manner?

But that's exactly why ultimately there has to be dialogue. The club is not being run in what the majority of us supporters consider is a "professional manner" - it staggers from one ****-up to the next. If it was run in a proper manner there would probably be no need for an ISA. But it isn't.

ornchurch ammer wrote:What evidence is there that other clubs actually respond to their SABs? They all might have them and they might have regular meetings but I'd bet that they are nothing more than lip service and a box ticking exercise.

More than a few clubs seem to listen to supporters groups, and some work closely with these organisations. Check out Liverpool's response to supporter unrest a few seasons back.

I don't know of any other top club that has a SAB set up along the lines of West Ham's though. You'd have got more cooperation in cold-war USSR.
Albie Beck
 
Posts: 4947
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:42 am

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Up the Junction on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:11 pm

ornchurch ammer wrote:All I want is for the management of the club to manage and run the club in a professional manner for what is best for the club.

Don't we all...
User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
 
Posts: 50898
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:03 am

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:41 pm

Big George wrote:We're in this for the long haul, we will keep going, I believe that we are going about things the right way,

Fwiw George, I think you're going about things the right way too. Thanks to you and all those who give time to WHUISA - it's appreciated. :crest:
User avatar
DaveWHU1964
 
Posts: 10918
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:14 am

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby Eggs'n'nuts on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Big George wrote:We're in this for the long haul, we will keep going, I believe that we are going about things the right way,

DaveWHU1964 wrote:Fwiw George, I think you're going about things the right way too. Thanks to you and all those who give time to WHUISA - it's appreciated. :crest:


X2.

As has already been said; it's still early days. Keep up the good work and to knick Northern souls saying: Keep The Faith!
User avatar
Eggs'n'nuts
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:10 pm
Location: Strolling, just strolling.

Re: WHUISA says ‘No Thanks’ to new SAB

Postby danm79 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:14 pm

chalks wrote:Sean Shitstone is a complete mug, a lapdog of the owners with that old pisshead Hugh.



He stands at the back of block 113 emailing Brady and Tara Warren during matches, has contacts that give him the WIFI codes so if anyone says he isn't connected to the club are fooling themselves.
danm79
 
Posts: 905
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:09 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dal, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Military Hammer, Next Trains Gone, Shy Ted, Winchammer and 47 guests