Are we West Ham anymore?

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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby -DL- on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:18 am

Ladies and gents, could you please only quote the first line of PP's most excellent post if you're replying :thup:

Thank you!
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby bonzosbeard on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:19 am

Were we West ham when 12000 turned up in first division v Leicester in 1985? Top flight. But was the good old days.....
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Oldammer on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:24 am

-DL- wrote:Ladies and gents, could you please only quote the first line of PP's most excellent post if you're replying :thup:

Thank you!



Sorry DL.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby pbenjy on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:39 am

the pink palermo wrote: a single relegation will finally finish this great club off once and for all..


Well put sir.

The only bit I could potentially disagree with is your comment about relegation. With less tourists going to the stadium, the owners could become more reliant on the old school die hard fans.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:32 pm

SamBaughanWHUFC wrote:
that boozer does look like a great boozer tho


tbf you are making out that the only reason you go to games is the atmosphere, whereas lots of others [including BillyD and myself] go to watch/support West Ham playing live, regardless of the atmosphere

To me that suggests you are just looking for the match-day occasion above and beyond the team/ club itself
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby goa127 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm

[quote="the pink palermo"]No.

The decline has been steady for around 14 or 15 years now, with only one brief wonderful final season at the Boleyn ground generating any sort of real togetherness within the club -players, supporters



Great assessment of where we've been in the last 20 years :thup: I'd only disagree with the debt situation analysis. Sure we still have some debts, but we're now making a decent operating profit and have borrowed short-term to finance Pell's rebuilding plans. That's the one thing that keeps me optimistic. A few years ago I just felt we were stumbling from crisis to crisis. Cearns, Brown, Duxbury, Icelandic fantasists, GSB. A succession of clueless owners who each contributed another layer of failure to our club. We're still stuck with the last lot but at least financially we seem to have stabilised, albeit at the cost of a stadium move many despise. I'd be amazed if GSB could actually make us successful, but then we really wouldn't be west ham any more :lol:
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby NorthBankAlliance on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:tbf you are making out that the only reason you go to games is the atmosphere, whereas lots of others [including BillyD and myself] go to watch/support West Ham playing live, regardless of the atmosphere

To me that suggests you are just looking for the match-day occasion above and beyond the team/ club itself


Yeah imagine wanting to go to football and experience an atmosphere.

Paying all that money to sit in abject silence, fun :asleep:
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby irving boleyn on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:08 pm

I really think some are over dramatizing the "fans turning against each other" because of one isolated incident. Does give ammunition to our detractors.

I've seen nothing of that kind in a lifetime of Season Tickets
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby SamBaughanWHUFC on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:11 pm

Obviously i am there for the football, but do they not come hand in hand? Singing and shouting as well as the football is what i want, dont get me wrong, i was happy to watch West Ham, but it just didnt feel like i remembered it.

I am so happy my dad isnt alive to have seen whats happened

Perhaps im looking at it too objectively
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:15 pm

NorthBankAlliance wrote:
Yeah imagine wanting to go to football and experience an atmosphere.

Paying all that money to sit in abject silence, fun :asleep:


I go to football to watch West Ham. The atmosphere is important but watching the team is more important IMHO

I don't sit in abject silence either. I try and have as 'enjoyable' time as possible with a lot of shouting and swearing [well hard me] - i have never been much of a singer but I do join in when it gets going in block 237
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby goa127 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:30 pm

I'm with you crouchend. A banging atmosphere is great when we're pushing on, but monotomous chanting at a crap game does my head in. The atmosphere has been poor generally because the fans have had so little to cheer about.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby hawkins_hammer on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm

the pink palermo wrote:No.

The decline has been steady for around 14 or 15 years now, with only one brief wonderful final season at the Boleyn ground generating any sort of real togetherness within the club -players, supporters and owners..


Been a ST holder for 15 years... lol. It was never West Ham.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby clawhammer on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:03 pm

Re:PP Post.
Do you have any evidence that 10,000 former STH have not renewed?
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby pbenjy on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:24 pm

clawhammer wrote:Re:PP Post.
Do you have any evidence that 10,000 former STH have not renewed?


From the clubs own figures. 52000 season tickets, 92% renewal rate for this season. 90% renewal rate for the previous season. Plus those that didn't renew when we left Upton Park. It isn't far short of 10,000.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Pentonville on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:31 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
Sadly though, somehow, the club , despite the old ground being sold in what increasingly looks like a shady deal, remains in debt, not to the banks who charge reasonable rates of interest but to an owner who charges higher rates than the bank.


PP another excellent post :thup: . You are spot on in your social analysis of whats happening to our club i.e from supporters to fans (I won't get into a dialogue with the id..t who turned up to one game and was 'disappointed with the atmosphere', as its some kind of West End show he was attending). I also have to agree with Goa about your analysis of the clubs financial position. Given the TV money, gate receipts from 60K attending, paying minimal rent for an arms-length publicly-owned piece of real estate, charging excessive interest on loans back to the club (as you point out) i think the owners are doing really well financially from the club. Their published financial statement for 2016/17 states that 'Profit of £43million in the year, up from a loss of £4.9m the previous year, and Sullivan takes his 51% of that profit. The thing is that we the supporters who go week in week out have to trust that the owners will plough those profits back into the team, and we have no basis at all to Trust Sullivan or Gold.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby RichieRiv on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Although that is an accurate account of the timeline I disagree that we met our demise 15 years ago. We were a yoyo club under Bonzo, our best ever finish in the league was followed by criminal under investment and the eventual sale of our best players. The 70's despite one high point was pretty mediocre.

This is the West Ham way. For every GS&B there is a Brown. For ever Brown there is a Cearns. This is what makes being a West Ham fan special. Putting up with this ****.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Colours never run on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:50 pm

RichieRiv wrote:Although that is an accurate account of the timeline I disagree that we met our demise 15 years ago. We were a yoyo club under Bonzo, our best ever finish in the league was followed by criminal under investment and the eventual sale of our best players. The 70's despite one high point was pretty mediocre.

This is the West Ham way. For every GS&B there is a Brown. For ever Brown there is a Cearns. This is what makes being a West Ham fan special. Putting up with this ****.


100%

The post makes it sound like the past 15 years or so have been non existent when it comes to being 'West Ham' bar 1 decent season apparently. I argue the 'togetherness' has been there all the time, till this very day too, regardless of the **** hole we now squat in. I don't include the RWHAG minority in that, because some of them showed their true colours, I'm refering to the right minded amongst us who do give a **** about the general long standing fanbase that doesn't threaten it's own and look out for one another. That's still there and means something still.
The West Ham spirit has never left us even though we've left the Boleyn. It's there and it's been bubbling with deep resentment ever since. It's not been replaced with a stadium rammed full of Johnny come lately plastics.

Reading the majority of the thoughts posted in this thread has only reinforced my view we are still West Ham and it heartens me to read it. But I do understand why some feel as if it's not there anymore.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Pentonville on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:57 pm

Just going through the premier league finances for 2016-17 put together by David Conn of the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... de-2016-17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) - I see only two clubs failed to make a profit last year, no surprise that this was Man city & Chelsea. This reflect the extraordinary turn around in club finances since the TV money starting getting really big. Just to remind myself how much this had gone up that since the premier league was created : 1992-96 - £300 million; 1997 -2000 - £600 million; 2001-2004 -£1.1 billion; 2005-07 - £1.1billion; 2008-10 - £1.7 billion; 2011-13 - £1.78 billion; 2013-16 -£3 billion; 2016-19 - £5.1 billion. When I started going to west Ham at the beginning of the 70s, few clubs if any made any profit. Sure the grounds were crap, indeed lethal in the case of Hillsborough and Bradfords's ground, and I wouldn't easily go back to that situation, but is it really so much better today in shiny new ground, round the clock tv coverage. Obviously the answer from my perspective is absolutely not. But this is the world we find ourselves in, and we need as supporters to fight to hold onto the bit of heritage (returning to the thread) we have - we are the stewards of West ham's heritage not the owners. This is clear from PP's contribution when he goes through all the different owners we have had, who only cared for the bottom line (the Icelandics excepted).
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby goa127 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:03 pm

you excuse the icelandics Pentonville, but they weren't playing with real money so they don't escape blame.
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Re: Are we West Ham anymore?

Postby Pentonville on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm

goa127 wrote:you excuse the icelandics Pentonville, but they weren't playing with real money so they don't escape blame.


Ok then - Damn þá til helvítis
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