The Battle for 7th

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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby LeonRivers on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:15 am

TheHandOfDog wrote:I'd happily see us fall a division or 2 for some FA cup glory. That day will be a day to behold, remaining in the premier league is not something to behold. What is so special about the premier league to you?

Personally, I prefer watching the likes of Carlos Tevez and Paolo Di Canio to Wayne Bridge and Neil Mellor. I’d rather watch our best young talent play for us than see them doing it for Spurs.
Last edited by LeonRivers on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby LeonRivers on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:20 am

It’s ridiculous! :lol:
Win one cup and get relegated. Probably suffer another 40 years of **** all, watching **** football.

=or=

Stay comfortably mid table in the PL, building a side that can hopefully regularly challenge for cup wins and higher league finishes.

What has gone so wrong in someone’s life for option 1 to be considered for even one second? :lol:

I genuinely cannot fathom it!
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby Wilko1304 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:38 am

I don't really see your argument holding up.

You'd rather stay up so we can build to win a cup. In this argument, we could win a cup, then go down. So we'd achieve the thing you would say staying up is aiming for.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby LeonRivers on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:56 am

Wilko1304 wrote:I don't really see your argument holding up.

You'd rather stay up so we can build to win a cup. In this argument, we could win a cup, then go down. So we'd achieve the thing you would say staying up is aiming for.

You believe the guarantee of winning one cup and then being **** for 40 years is a better opportunity than potentially having a side that can win the cup several times whilst fielding vastly superior footballers?
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby brothernero on Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:15 am

@Leon It sounds like West Ham United was the wrong choice of team for you. Plenty of other teams in the Premier League would suit your criteria. Arsenal or Chelsea perhaps?
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:57 am

LeonRivers wrote:You believe the guarantee of winning one cup and then being **** for 40 years is a better opportunity than potentially having a side that can win the cup several times whilst fielding vastly superior footballers?

I believe a good few thousand would go along with that.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby westhamshares on Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am

based on recent performances west ham are more likely to finish 12th than 7th that holiday sorry I mean warm weather training really made all the difference
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby arlhe on Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:51 am

Since we haven’t won a cup either does that make a glory team a better match for you , Brotherno?

We can all support West Ham but have different views.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby James P on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:29 am

It’s slightly bizarre how often the “would you take relegation and a cup” argument crops up giving how unlikely it actually is of happening. I believe Wigan are the only team to ever have won the FA Cup and get relegated in the same season. It seems an incredibly unlikely scenario to place so much focus on.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby S-H on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:39 am

James P wrote:It’s slightly bizarre how often the “would you take relegation and a cup” argument crops up giving how unlikely it actually is of happening. I believe Wigan are the only team to ever have won the FA Cup and get relegated in the same season. It seems an incredibly unlikely scenario to place so much focus on.


I think it's just a way of people expressing their desire to actually win silver wear, over simply existing in the Premier league.

You are right, the chances of winning a cup and going down are very unlikely. However winning a trophy is more important to many, than what league we are in as the sad reality is, many of us will never see West Ham lift a trophy in our lifetime.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby szola on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:51 am

S-H wrote:I think it's just a way of people expressing their desire to actually win silverware


It's people saying they want to win, and since we're not good enough to win the league, we'll take the cup.
Is it our level of Tottenhammery?
:wink:

I'll even be satisfied with a good game against Manchester United at home, or beating Arsenal away.
Or that goal by DiCanio
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby brownout on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:54 am

Problem is too many players didn't see it like the thread title - 'The Battle for 7th'.

They weren't interested in a battle, just turning up, hoping we might win, picking up a huge salary and moving to another club when it suits them. And trying their hardest in games when it suits them too.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby LeonRivers on Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:48 am

James P wrote:It’s slightly bizarre how often the “would you take relegation and a cup” argument crops up giving how unlikely it actually is of happening. I believe Wigan are the only team to ever have won the FA Cup and get relegated in the same season. It seems an incredibly unlikely scenario to place so much focus on.

:thup:
Yet the number of teams that have put too many of their eggs into the "try and win a cup" basket and got relegated without a cup is [I imagine] considerably higher.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby mushy on Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:01 pm

EastEndIRON wrote:
They didn’t deserve the win today in my opinion, great equalising goal from Hazard

Even so, you would be happy I guess if we setup and played like Wolves did when we face Chelsea in a few weeks?
They were full of running and commitment and had a go, that's all you can ask.
That's exactly what we haven't been doing of late.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:19 pm

The whole winning cup vs staying in the Premier league discussion is a bit simplistic

Would I want us to win the FA Cup if it met relegation and a maximum of five years spent in the Championship before enjoying promotion? Yes

Would I want us to win the FA Cup if it met relegation and then the rest of my life we were stuck in Championship or lower? Then No. Most pertinently because that would pretty much rule us out winning it ever again or of actually having hopes, however small, of becoming more successful and playing in Europe

No one on this site has ever been through the bottom scenario, as we have not been out of the top division for longer than three seasons since the 50s
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby prophet:marginal on Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:35 pm

Way I see it is that over time our club's achievements in 1980-81 become more significant as the seasons pass. By way of reminder we

1. Won the FA Cup, whilst in the 2nd division, and
2. Secured promotion in the next season, having had a return visit to Wembley as good measure.

Clubs outside the top 6 don't go that regularly to finals. It wasn't going to last, even if we did consolidate for the title tilt a few years later.

However, the reason for the 4 decades long wait for any further silverware is that the whole game has become a lot more risk averse. Despite having much bigger squads, at least 50% of the top flight spends most of every season looking downwards, not up. And this affects the attitude taken by clubs and their coaches towards cup competitions. For this season's Wimbledon, look also to Arsenal away (Moyes) and the match we played against Wigan 2 months later.

Bilic realistically chucked in his hand in the Europa, even if he did take the FA Cup seriously in his first season.

The last time we made a decent effort in both cups, we got relegated. Even if that was largely informed by Grant being ill-equipped for a full league programme, we have to go that far back to even find a season where we took both competitions seriously.

Its not a thing that is either exclusive to West Ham, or, obviously, to any of the coaches I have named. It is a creeping sense of risk avoidance, of survival in fact being enough each season for the people who take the revenue for ticket sales.

Nobody would set out to get relegated at the start of the season, so as to 'ensure' some cup silverware, but the lesson we need to really learn is that our exploits in the early 80's represented football of that era, of Villa winning the league using only 14 players, of Ipswich, Soton and even QPR having title races (that they may lost, but only at the last knockings); its an era that has passed - these days even clubs with 50,000 + matchday supports are in reality only there to make up the numbers (and qualify for the TV revenues).
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby warp on Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:42 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
I genuinely cannot fathom it!


possibly because you're a moron.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby thejackhammer on Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:57 pm

I think we're all assuming we'd come straight back up. There's no guarantee of that.
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby Penfold711 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 pm

Just speculation on my part but do G&S actually want us to finish higher than mid-table? The rent on the stadium increases cumulatively from 10th upward (about a quarter way down in the below link).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36047809

Then, if we qualify for European competition, how will that square with the number of games we are guaranteed to be able to play at the LS, especially if we go on runs in both the FA and league cups? (genuinely not sure on this.)
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Re: The Battle for 7th

Postby Briggsy on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:44 pm

The old cup vs league discussions.

Realistically, over the next 10 years, we probably won't win a cup & probably will get relegated.
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