The summer transfer window 2019 thread

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Hammerguy
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Hammerguy »

dodger wrote: No.

1. He will be worth much more in even one or two years.
2. We won’t replace him with anyone nearly as good or his age.
3. It would send out the message that we are prepared to sell our best players, when we’ve finally had at least a couple of seasons of not doing that.
I actually personally disagree with all three of your answers

1) Potentially but is it the perfect storm now to sell him, defenders are in high demand and Manchester United are desperate, he is seen as the top young player, in 2 years time if he has not reached the elite level, bigger clubs will not take a punt on Diop.

Whats his max value?, Van Dijk went for 90 Mil, is it worth risking 60 million for the potential of 90 mil. In 2 years time, he could get injured, he could not progress to Van Dijk's level , But also in 2 years time, he will only have 2 years left on his current contract, if he plays hard ball, his value would be maximum 60 million anyway , if we don't sell him its imperative we make him sign a new contract to protect his value

2) On current ability, say he was 30 years old, Diop would be worth around 15-20 million pounds, he had a decent season but it was nothing better than Reid had during 2013-2015, personally think Balbuena was better last season, therefore we can easily buy a better current ability centre back or alternatively go for a younger centre back again e.g. Kabak the difference between Diop to Kabak will be less than in 2 years time if we buy a 19 year old for around 20 million , therefore we can replace Diop for 20 million meaning we have 40 million to improve the whole squad, in them 2 years Kabak may become a 60 million pound centre back meaning you have made the 40 million Diops replacement in the same timespan, but also can improve the remainder of the squad. This time last year had anyone heard of Diop? i trust Husillos to find another Diop

Personally i think we have 3 problem positions that we are not addressing this window, both fullbacks and central defensive midfield, with the remainder of the 40 million we could address 2 of these and therefore although centre back may get worse the overall squad may improve

3) I think this the exact message i want to send to the world, use us as a stepping stone. Lets be fair unless you grew up as a hammer, i don't want any player we sign wanting to dream of playing for us. They can win the champions league or the premier league, and who can blame them, we cant offer them this should be ambitious to play for Real Madrid or Manchester United. They should have the confidence they therefore all we offer them is the platform to parachute themselves towards these clubs indoing so we earn the profit but also get their ability towards our goals

Take Maxi Gomez as the example, if we show him Diop going to PSG or Manchester United, and say this could be you, score us 20 goals, and if we get 80million for you then you can go with our wishes. Clubs such as Benifica and Ajax have benefited from this model, its about believing your recruitment and management is better than your playing squad, and from his past signings, i believe Husillos can turn 60 million into 90 million quicker and more reliablly than Diop can get to that value

To reiterate, i don't want Diop to go, but everyone has a price and i trust Husillos
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loftyboy
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by loftyboy »

Excellent post Hammerguy but your argument is very much dependant on all of any sale proceeds being reinvested. I hope that would be the case but certainly wouldn't depend on it.
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Universidad-de-Chile
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Universidad-de-Chile »

NeverSayDie wrote:
Signing for Atalanta
:thup: Thanks!
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dodger
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by dodger »

Hammerguy wrote:
To reiterate, i don't want Diop to go, but everyone has a price and i trust Husillos
He is not the owner of our football club.

All new signings have an element of the unknown. We have no idea if the replacement we find would be as good or even half as good, and let’s not pretend Husillos is God - he will make mistakes and not all of his choices will be successes.

We have Diop and Balbuena as good defenders. Reid we cannot presume will ever come back to full form and Ogbonna is unreliable. Let’s say Balbeuna gets injured at the Copa after we sell Diop. We’d be up **** creek with everyone knowing that we are the ones now desperate for central defenders. We then either overpay for an inferior replacement or go desperate and quite possibly get it wrong.

If you sell your best players, however much you get for them, and eventually you regress and pay the price. Look at Southampton - taken them a while but it’s catching up to them.
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thejackhammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by thejackhammer »

Selling Coutinho really put the scouse back.
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dodger
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by dodger »

thejackhammer wrote:Selling Coutinho really put the scouse back.
We are not Liverpool.

We do not have their pulling power or financial clout, and so a comparison has no merit.

It amazes me that so many are willing to say auvoir to Diop so soon. Are these the same people who will then moan if the replacement isn’t as good and we have a season conceding shedloads again?

It’s like people have forgotten who the money we bring in goes to, or our record at replacing our best players (Rio, Payet, etc.).
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thejackhammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by thejackhammer »

We wouldnt have to improve to the scale they did.

The point I was making is that every team has to sell a player sometimes, as long as you replace them adequately.

I'm in no way advocating a Diop sale.
Hammerguy
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Hammerguy »

dodger wrote: He is not the owner of our football club.

All new signings have an element of the unknown. We have no idea if the replacement we find would be as good or even half as good, and let’s not pretend Husillos is God - he will make mistakes and not all of his choices will be successes.

We have Diop and Balbuena as good defenders. Reid we cannot presume will ever come back to full form and Ogbonna is unreliable. Let’s say Balbeuna gets injured at the Copa after we sell Diop. We’d be up **** creek with everyone knowing that we are the ones now desperate for central defenders. We then either overpay for an inferior replacement or go desperate and quite possibly get it wrong.

If you sell your best players, however much you get for them, and eventually you regress and pay the price. Look at Southampton - taken them a while but it’s catching up to them.
I agree theirs a risk, i just think the risk at 60 million bid for Diop, is more risky keeping Diop than selling Diop. Southampton failed when they stopped reinvesting the money sold back into the playing squad.

Yes Husillos will make mistakes but in my plan if realistically 2 of the 3 replacement work then overall our squad would be in a better state than it currently is. unless we can start consecutively winning champions leagues and premier leagues we are a selling club, if in 3 years time Diop is still at west ham, he is either not is worth more than £60 million pounds or we are challenging for a league title. Realism suggests one day we will have to replace him in the next 3 years, i think its easier to replace diop now than in 2 or 3 years time as the risk is lower as his current ability is lower, meaning the gap of a flop is lower compared to Diops current ability is small
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thejackhammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by thejackhammer »

The ideal scenario, if he has to be sold, would be to bring in a young centre back, give him the season to develop and then sell Diop for a stupid amount the season after.

Maybe Husillos would have that sort of hindsight.
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Universidad-de-Chile
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Universidad-de-Chile »

The point is for me, we have to sell FIRST (get rid of) our bad/mediocre players...


Dont see the thing in let it go FIRST the good ones...


At the end we will have still the dead wood and another new problem in replacing the player gone....











(Unless the amount of the sale is really obscene... :arry: )
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Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

unfortunately my dear friend, we don't have many salable assets.

Snodgrass
Cresswell
Masuaku
Obiang
Ogbonna

could bring in some money but not enough to re-shape the squad enough.

Anderson could of course, and from what we read, does have a verbal agreement with him that IF a CL club comes in for him @ 75M we would sell.

I wonder if a CL team came in for him at around 50 say, he would want to leave ? having made that verbal "promise" leaves us in a bit of a bind I would think.

Arnie seems to have lost his value and in fact I would wonder if anyone would actually make a bid that would be worth our while accepting ?

this isn't me advocating selling Diop. only why perhaps some people might be happy with it,

I think it sends the wrong message to the rest of the squad.
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Colours never run
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Colours never run »

There is another issue with suddenly selling an important player you've identified as a key part of your 1st Team and that's replacing them with equal quality that settles in nearly straight away, so the Team doesn't get effected too much. Take Rice as another good example should we agree to sell him now, who out there at his age is honestly close to being as good as him in the vital role in the Team he plays? Very few and far between and if they are, likely to be sold for a similar amount. Sure, the money's good in the short term, but there is a tendency or even temptation to waste good money on lesser players who might appear to be on a similar level, but they may be missing the kinda qualities you wanted in who you just sold and it upsets the dynamic of the Team that way. Understandably they'd be plenty of calls from fans alike, why haven't we spent the money yet, get on with it. But it's easier said than done and it also means Clubs now know you've got a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket and ask for top dollar for their best players themselves. And before you know it, you've probably wasted a lot of the money on players that for whatever reason just don't quite work out. Doesn't mean it cannot work out if you're well prepared for it with targets lined up, it's just not as easy as it sounds just because you have a lot of money to play with, down a very good player who had just settled in great to the setup.
Last edited by Colours never run on Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by paulhs1 »

I'd rather sell Arnie over Diop.

Arnie @ £25m-£30m is a good sale as it gets a 30 year old with baggage off the books and buys us a Gomez.

Diop will be worth £60m to £80m now or in 2 years time.

Why sell Diop now especially if the kid doesn't want to go?
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

trouble is Paul..no one has even bid for Arnie nor has been linked since the more than dubious Chinese link back when. and I expect no one will (until January maybe)
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by paulhs1 »

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:trouble is Paul..no one has even bid for Arnie nor has been linked since the more than dubious Chinese link back when. and I expect no one will (until January maybe)
Possibly but we dont need to sell either currently.

Are we even touting Arnie? If we did I'm sure we'd get interest, but we dont need to.

We could sell Diop and replace for £20m but hes only 22 with 4 years left on hes current deal. Hes stock will go up especially once he becomes a regular in the French side. We may as well get another 2 years out of him then see where we're at.

I'd go as far to say that Arnie and Lanzini should go before Diop, based on the agro(Arnie) and the length of contract (Lanzini).
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

as you saw, I am not advocating selling Diop - in fact I said that it sends the wrong message.

only that people see him as a salable asset whereas we have few others (responding to u-d-c)

honestly I don't think we'd get anything over 20-25 for Arnie if any bids came in. also touting him would lessen his value - so we would be "losing" money on selling him and replacing whereas (playing devil's advocate) we could replace Diop, and buy another pivotal position (quality CM/DM) and/or LB
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by paulhs1 »

I appreciate you're not advocating it Cuenca and I'm also not advocating selling either Diop, Arnie or Lanzini. I'm just saying that would be my order of preference if we had to.
Although I cant see any of those 3 going in this window :thup:
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

got it !!!

:thup:

still Snodgrass and Masuaku are in the last year of their contract and we learn that maybe Lanzini is too depending on whether he thinks they can win their court case so we might not have many alternatives open to us....
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by EastVillageHammer »

paulhs1 wrote:I appreciate you're not advocating it Cuenca and I'm also not advocating selling either Diop, Arnie or Lanzini. I'm just saying that would be my order of preference if we had to.
Although I cant see any of those 3 going in this window :thup:
Order of preference to sell:

Arnie: Moody tit, 29 years old, could be sold for big money.
Lanzini: potentially crocked and wants out. Could still return to being a great player though.
Drop: not made any suggestions he wants to leave. Only getting better. 60 million rumours from nowhere.
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by paulhs1 »

EastVillageHammer wrote: Order of preference to sell:

Arnie: Moody tit, 29 years old, could be sold for big money.
Lanzini: potentially crocked and wants out. Could still return to being a great player though.
Drop: not made any suggestions he wants to leave. Only getting better. 60 million rumours from nowhere.
That's my order of preference too East.
Taking some of the squad players out that we're supposedly trying to shift (obiang, Hugill, Bryam, Hernandez,) I'd say of our "starter players" I'd go with:

1) Arnie
2) Lanzini
3) Masuaku

And then Diop.
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