End of an Era

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Re: End of an Era

Postby S-H on Mon May 13, 2019 7:20 am

CurlyHammer wrote:I always be against for many reasons.

But one of main reasons is because of this ‘goal’ we scored against Blackburn, which iirc was vital in great escape season.

https://youtu.be/oLjOoIvW68c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Surely we've had those types of decisions go against us, more than in our favour..
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Re: End of an Era

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Mon May 13, 2019 7:28 am

CurlyHammer wrote:I always be against for many reasons.

But one of main reasons is because of this ‘goal’ we scored against Blackburn, which iirc was vital in great escape season.

https://youtu.be/oLjOoIvW68c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was more about goal line technology rather than VAR.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby AlfieG on Mon May 13, 2019 9:21 am

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote:
Still waiting on those ones to even themselves out.


Thats why I said , over time...... :lol:
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Re: End of an Era

Postby sendô on Mon May 13, 2019 9:49 am

S-H wrote:I for one, can't wait to see Carragher and Neville over analysing every decision on a Monday night next season..

Carra will be spitting mad if a decision goes against Liverpoooooooool.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Clacton-ammer on Mon May 13, 2019 10:02 am

I'm looking forward to it, f'sure they will need to speed up decision time, plus maybe bring it onto the big screen to keep everyone involved in the stadium.

IF it used properly I don't see it causing too many issues (hopefully). Could add to the drama, still go up & celebrate & then the wait......think Tottenham v Man C, both emotions in a matter of minutes, could add to it...
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Re: End of an Era

Postby OrrMakesItThree on Mon May 13, 2019 10:35 am

It concerns me that with the 'safety net' of VAR will officials be able to get away with even poorer performances than we've seen over the past few seasons. Will the attitude be "I don't need to be spot on or make a decision because VAR will actually make it for me"
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Re: End of an Era

Postby chigwells finest on Mon May 13, 2019 10:36 am

so what happens if through on goal now and lino raises flag, you stop . then it shows you're onside and couldve go on to score . , might as well ignore every linos flag go on and score then see what happens
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Clacton-ammer on Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 am

Play to the whistle, always.

It ain't going to be perfect, nothing ever is, but I think it could be massive for clubs like us. Time will tell, I'm looking forward to it, hopefully it will be a positive step for football.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby thejackhammer on Mon May 13, 2019 11:01 am

Theres a few things to make it work better, hopefully we'll get there through trial and error.

I think it should be only hugely wrong decisions that are looked at, Milner's offside against us for example. Not looking at every angle of a goal to find an excuse to overturn.

A 5th official in a studio with the footage, looking at it quickly and discretely like a punter watching a live match.

I'd also consider giving managers to power to ask for VAR, but give them 3 uses a game, with them losing a use for an incorrect claim. Similar to bans being extended for pointless appeals.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Denzil on Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 am

My concern is that there will still be decisions that are not clear cut, or open to debate. Take Llorente vs Man City for example. I personally think that it was a goal, and it would have been very harsh to rule out. However, my Spurs supporting mate says they are extremely lucky and as initial contact was made with his hand, it should not have stood. The referee even turned around and shrugged his shoulders as if to say "I'm not sure" when he awarded it.

I don't think it'll kill the game, it's about time that we saw something introduced to stop these laughable decisions that we see sometimes (players diving for a penalty, lino's missing someone two yards offside etc).

It's putting this into practice, I was astounded that they trialled it in the World Cup, surely it should be a tried and tested system before it's used there. What we do have benefiting our league is that it has been rolled out through competitions and leagues elsewhere before here, so hopefully any kinks in the system or time issues when making a decision are gone and the ref's can be properly trained on it.

I'm sure someone, somewhere, has worked out how the PL table would look this season had VAR been implemented. That would be interesting to see. My guess would be that Man City would have had the title wrapped up before the final game but I might be wrong. I can just think of a few times Liverpool scored goals that should not have stood, notably vs us.

I saw a stat somewhere that has looked at penalty decisions in five seasons preceding VAR and the one season it's used in leagues that now use it and in all of them, there were less penalties in the season it was used which surprised me.

No more diving? Bring it on.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby BSB1 on Mon May 13, 2019 11:23 am

Loving the over the top drama queens spouting about how VAR will be the end of football as we know it.

Comments like "Totally kills that explosion of spontaneous joy that makes attending a game in the flesh special. Kills it dead",

What, like when we all spontaneously explode with joy at a goal but have not seen the lino flag for offside? In the case of VAR goals it will either produce the same effect or we'll get to celebrate twice.

And, the way people are chirping, anyone would think it's going to slow games down to the speed of American football where the play will be in stop start stages. That certainly wasn't the case in the World Cup, nor do we usually get more than 2 or 3 majorly contentious points in a game.

Will it take some time and fine tuning? Of course but it's not going to be the end of the world like some on here are hoping for. Football has always been the slowest to join the technical improvements seen in other sports (see goal line tech), and that's been more detrimental to the game as a spectator sport than this improvement will ever be.

If people would rather be spend days moaning about how Liverpool's goal was offside (and all the other injustices we've had) rather than how we would have benefited from correct decisions, they need to question why they're following this sport in the first place.

This move is long overdue in my opinion.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby mushy on Mon May 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:People complain about VAR but others complain about he points lost to Leicester, Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Really you cannot have both,

.

In actual fact you can have both and will have both. I think of the decisions against us this season only the Liverpool offside would have definitely been ruled out by VAR.
I see just as many (if not more) disputes with VAR as we already have now, just brings in delays that ruin the spontaneity of celebrating a goal.
Its done for TV, it gives them another talking point.and as such in their eyes makes it more attractive.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Prob on Mon May 13, 2019 12:38 pm

VAR is a good thing and has been working well I think. It add some excitement to the game as well as we have seen in the champions league and world cup. It will only get better with time
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Re: End of an Era

Postby westhamshares on Mon May 13, 2019 2:03 pm

DasNutNock wrote:Of course it's going to make things worse. Just means that more goals against the Sky clubs will be ruled out.


that's exactly what is going to happen - those who think west ham will benefit are delusional
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Re: End of an Era

Postby westhamshares on Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm

e17 wrote:Hate it with a passion

A step further away from kids playing the game on Hackney Marshes

Slows everything down and yet to see any game it’s actually improved

I don’t need to read an essay on why it’s good for the game, I just know it’s not good to watch


I reckon within a season or two there will be adverts during the period of VAR. remember these words
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Patito on Mon May 13, 2019 2:20 pm

chigwells finest wrote:so what happens if through on goal now and lino raises flag, you stop . then it shows you're onside and couldve go on to score . , might as well ignore every linos flag go on and score then see what happens



I think linos will wait until a move breaks down and then put their flag up.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby eastsider on Mon May 13, 2019 4:01 pm

I think we are the type of club that may well benefit from VAR over a season.......
May be proved wrong but I am looking forward to it personally......
:crest:
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Danny's Dyer Acting on Mon May 13, 2019 4:26 pm

chigwells finest wrote:so what happens if through on goal now and lino raises flag, you stop . then it shows you're onside and couldve go on to score . , might as well ignore every linos flag go on and score then see what happens


I quite like the idea of taking it out of the lino's hand at the highest levels. Let's be honest, they have a nigh on impossible job getting those calls right and focusing on the rest of their job. Have a guy watching everything on a screen and letting the ref know when someone is offside, ref can still let it go if they're not in agreement and the review afterwards.

Also frees up the two lino's to be an extra set of eyes for the ref - hopefully they'd be more useful than the ones UEFA trialled on the goal lines.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Het-Field on Mon May 13, 2019 4:43 pm

Offside calls are the best reason to bring in VAR.

Most goals are clear cut. Most offsides will be clearcut. Then, there will be the uncalled offsides which lead to goals, or the non offsides that lead to legitimate goals being ruled out. The chance of human error in offside is too great, and the linesman has a far greater remit than just calling offsides.
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Re: End of an Era

Postby Graza on Mon May 13, 2019 5:37 pm

I can see the negatives, play slowed down, time wasted, not really knowing what's going on (we should see on the screens everything that's being reviewed), no way to announce a la rugby what the decision is or "why". It's also less "pure" and further from what kids can possibly do.

However, anything that levels the playing field against the teams that get all the decisions (it does not ****ing even out and never will) so that even though you have to play a team where their goalkeeper cost more than your team at least they actually have to beat you. That one decision against Leicester cost us 2 points and a league place. It wasn't close, it wasn't difficult, certainly not for a man in a booth. If that had been the difference between 7th and 8th would we shrug and say "oh well one year we'll get into Europe because a lino didn't want another mouthful from their defenders"?

It's going to be a bit **** initially but over time it should get slicker and easier. I'm comfortable with a high water mark of irrefutable evidence to change a decision, but the game should be played as it it isn't there until someone speaks in the refs ear.

That said I hope they don't pull the MOTD trick of pausing it before the ball is struck and the player is onside then 2/3 frames later Webb it leaves the boot they are off... They probably will.
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