The USA don't really get soccer.....

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WCpete
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by WCpete »

The thing is, in England (if KUMB is indeed representative of the greater opinion) the prevalent attitude is it's club over country for the players but also for the fans as well. It's kind of funny to see so many people lamenting that England don't display the same passion and effort as the US, when in truth it most people most of the time say they couldn't care less about the England squad.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by AndyCarrollsBarber »

I think it's rather sad that so many people would choose club over country. For me its country over club every time. It's the one occasion where the whole country unites, puts aside any petty jealousy or rivalry, and all want the same result.

Everyone saw what the Olympics did to morale in the uk - it's a shame our football team can't have the same effect.

The premier league has gotten too big. It's now the be all and end all when it comes to English football, and I don't think it's going to change, as the PL couldn't give a damn about the national team as long as the ££££s keep rolling in.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by Clucking Bell »

AndyCarrollsBarber wrote:I think it's rather sad that so many people would choose club over country. For me its country over club every time. It's the one occasion where the whole country unites, puts aside any petty jealousy or rivalry, and all want the same result.
I think it's all part of the "Premier League Effect" which is a strange subset of the overall policy of the last quarter century which can be summarized as "making sure that the very rich become even richer by ****ing over everyone else."

Hence, we have 20 very happy club owners who, if they aren't billionaires already, are well on their way together with about 400 players who are all millionaires and probably can't believe their luck.at being so well paid for being, on the whole, fairly ****.

I've often found that the fastest way to lose interest in something is to get paid for it and the more you get paid, the less respect you tend to have for the thing you're paid to do and the more you feel you're entitled to the dough.

I used to work in the car industry and there was a point in the late nineties when there were CAD designers (draughtsmen) who were pulling in three grand most weeks thanks to a scarcity of good designers and unlimited overtime. As a friend of mine put it, "they're all pulling in three large, some of them even think they're worth it!'

We've got exactly the same problem in football - the Bosman decision was the worst thing that ever happened to the game 'cos we've got a load of overpaid shitkickers and I reckon I'll be in the ground before we turn up another Brady or Devonshire or Rush or Moore. When was the last time we had a player who would have got in a World Cup Winner's team ..... Cashley maybe? Shearer before that?

Our players just ain't hungry enough
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by AndyCarrollsBarber »

Having given the problem 45 seconds thought before sleep last night, I had an idea... How about age-related tiered wage caps, and a cap on transfer values until a certain age?

The main problem is young players getting too much too soon, so maybe there should be a limit on pay of say £1,000 p/w until 16, £2,500 p/w until 18, then gradually increase it year on year until at 21 the cap is £25k p/w, and £50k p/w at 23. From then on the cap is lifted.

Same with transfer fees. Cap a transfer fee at £1m until 18, and it will stop the bigger clubs from hoovering up the talent, as it will be less of an incentive for smaller clubs to sell in order to make a quick buck.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by bobcar »

AndyCarrollsBarber wrote: Same with transfer fees. Cap a transfer fee at £1m until 18, and it will stop the bigger clubs from hoovering up the talent, as it will be less of an incentive for smaller clubs to sell in order to make a quick buck.
All that would do is let the big clubs hoover up the young talent for less money.

The problem for club inequality is not transfer fees but wages.

The problem (a problem) for young player development is the big clubs grabbing the young talent and then not playing them (Rodwell, Sinclair) or playing them out of position (Jones, Smalling). Will Shaw play much next season or will Evra be chosen instead?
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by WHUJohn »

Of course people put club over country in this country.

It's not cool to be an England fan whatsoever.

There have been accusations of people being racist when they do, there have been instances of local councils and even the Police getting involved when people fly the flag.

This isn't just about football, it's about a mindset within society.

For completely the other side of the coin, look at the Americans and how proud they are where the flag is concerned, it's everywhere you look when you're there.

Then look at the performances of each country.

It's no coincidence.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by AndyCarrollsBarber »

Yet it's ok when a country such as India play cricket against England, and the crowd is filled with Indian supporters, despite the fact that the vast majority were born in the UK, have an English passport, and almost certainly all live within 100 miles of whatever ground they are playing in.

There's something seriously wrong when we feel that we can't support our own country for fear of treading on someone else's toes, yet other ethnicities can support other countries despite not having any ties to that country other than ethnicity.

This country has gone bonkers.
ooh look who it is
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by ooh look who it is »

When I was a kid everyone supported England. The whole school, street, everyone cheered on England

Now, you have people with no reason to cheering on Italy or France etc etc. Not just kids but grown men.

I agree with what has been said about the Americans, far more patriotic. I work for an American company who celebrate and look after their armed forces and raise money for them. The amount of stuff they do to raise money for the veterans etc is admirable. However the London office not a mention and nothing on Remberance day. Anyway seperate argument that for another thread.

What was said is correct to support England it's not far being off branded racist these days.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by Romford »

Huge bit on ABC last night....was the 2nd piece after the Israeli murders.

I was amazed....the jargon they use doesn't help though.
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James P
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by James P »

AndyCarrollsBarber wrote:There's something seriously wrong when we feel that we can't support our own country for fear of treading on someone else's toes, yet other ethnicities can support other countries despite not having any ties to that country other than ethnicity.

This country has gone bonkers.
Sorry but this is b*llocks.

Who says you can't support England? There are flags up everywhere. I'm pleasantly surprised how many are still up even though we're long out the tournament. On matchdays there were people walking up and down the street everywhere in England shirts and England merchandise. Every type of shop has bunting everywhere and flags in the windows.

"PC gone mad" gone mad to suggest anyone is feeling unsure whether to get behind England or not.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by WHUJohn »

James P wrote:
Sorry but this is b*llocks.

Who says you can't support England? There are flags up everywhere. I'm pleasantly surprised how many are still up even though we're long out the tournament. On matchdays there were people walking up and down the street everywhere in England shirts and England merchandise. Every type of shop has bunting everywhere and flags in the windows.

"PC gone mad" gone mad to suggest anyone is feeling unsure whether to get behind England or not.
Don't apologize as it''s not b*llocks, you're wrong.

If it was b*llocks the below wouldn't have happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sades.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/council ... s-1-784881" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/st ... xis-217754" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I could go on, and on and on.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

The two main reasons as far as i can tell as to why people don't 'support' England as much as they do in other countries is... 1) the huge presence of domestic game and the club rivalries that brings with it.... 2) and the fact that our players have developed the cult of celebrity and therefore so far removed from the normal person on the street these day - generally in the main they have been quite unlikable characters (I am hoping that will change with some of the new guard coming in)

i may be wrong but i just can't imagine Thomas Muller, Iniesta, Robben, Vincent Kompany etc etc swanning about acting like overpaid chavs in crap nightclubs or in Marbs, Dubai, or whatever other chavvy hell-hole happens to be the holiday destination of choice for English celebrities
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by James P »

What have any of them got to do with supporting England in this World Cup? Couple of scare pieces from four years ago and some silly council decision about a flag on a town hall.

If you've honestly felt you couldn't support England in this world cup then I'm staggered, absolutely staggered.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by WalthammerUSA »

Romford wrote:Huge bit on ABC last night....was the 2nd piece after the Israeli murders.

I was amazed....the jargon they use doesn't help though.
The World Cup has been a really, really big deal here, but the news cycle moves fast. Most fans will be back to baseball (vomit) soon.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by WalthammerUSA »

Pretty good take on World Cup TV ratings in the US (which were excellent) here and what they might mean for football in this country.

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ss ... an_to.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by WHU_Del »

James P wrote:What have any of them got to do with supporting England in this World Cup? Couple of scare pieces from four years ago and some silly council decision about a flag on a town hall.

If you've honestly felt you couldn't support England in this world cup then I'm staggered, absolutely staggered.
Twitter convo I had on the subject:
https://twitter.com/DerkHat/status/480283994450567168
There's plenty that think that way.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by James P »

I seriously think people need to take their faces out of old chip paper and the extremes of social media and actually go outside into the real world. If you honestly felt you were made uncomfortable supporting England in this World Cup I feel sad for you.
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inter me nan
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by inter me nan »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:The two main reasons as far as i can tell as to why people don't 'support' England as much as they do in other countries is... 1) the huge presence of domestic game and the club rivalries that brings with it.... 2) and the fact that our players have developed the cult of celebrity and therefore so far removed from the normal person on the street these day - generally in the main they have been quite unlikable characters (I am hoping that will change with some of the new guard coming in)

i may be wrong but i just can't imagine Thomas Muller, Iniesta, Robben, Vincent Kompany etc etc swanning about acting like overpaid chavs in crap nightclubs or in Marbs, Dubai, or whatever other chavvy hell-hole happens to be the holiday destination of choice for English celebrities
Lots of good points my friend.
However I think the majority of people get too emotional about England,, and behave like a spurned lover.....become spiteful and bitter, and proclaim the utmost disdain for the national team....they seem to react as if they have personally been insulted, and act accordingly .
I've heard friends and colleagues talk about how they can't be bothered to watch England's games, then pipe up how pony they was the day after, ........pointing out how everyone involved are cuntz and that they won't bother watching again, only to repeat the whole process the very next time England play.
They then become experts on exactly how' we should play , and who should start for England ,and why so and so should be dropped , and flavour of the month should get his place ....and the manager should be sacked and replaced by one that has just won their last three wins on the trot, and sounds a bit English.
Before reiterating that they don't watch the national team anymore ,and prefer to get behind khazakstan,because all but one of their team actually play in the khazakstani league,earning the equivalent of 70pound a week and , all the cabbage they can eat.
You are then expected to nod sagely and agree out of politeness , because that the English way :)
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by SirStoneyOfBow »

Yes, the majority don't understand, but there are a good few who want to learn and have thoroughly enjoyed this tournament.
The atmosphere around my way yesterday was amazing. I saw flags, replica shirts and a genuine excitement of what was to come.
The USA, despite being outplayed by a very strong attacking force still made a game of it. They are still a good few decades but with the resources they have can be a team to make the next level within the next few major tournaments.
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Re: The USA don't really get soccer.....

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Romford wrote:Huge bit on ABC last night....was the 2nd piece after the Israeli murders.

I was amazed....the jargon they use doesn't help though.
But that jargon is our jargon! As an American, if I am speaking with my friends and use words like "pitch" or "boots" it's viewed as an affectation, like I'm one of those insufferable American soccer snobs. The game itself doesn't need to be Americanized, but it is important to recognize that the US is a different sports environment. We are what we is. If soccer is going to grow as a major sport here, it cannot be presented in a way that is alien to the majority of the population.

There is a well-known sports commentator in the US named Keith Olberman (a bit of a windbag but fairly thoughtful) who had seven suggestions about how to increase American interest in soccer:

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