England v Slovakia match thread

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hammerlever
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by hammerlever »

Nesticles wrote:The point Bilic made last night when Ian Wright popped up about England dominating possession was brilliant. "you only had possession because the other team didn't want it" :lol:

I dread to think what is going to happen when a team decides to have a go at us. Cahill, Smalling and Hart look like 3 disasters waiting to happen, 2 if you take into account Hart already has.

Slightly optimistic the team might click next round, but overall I think Hodgson is out of his depth and not 100% sure what his best 11 is. Last night killed the slight momentum the team had following the Wales win.

I think it's important to be realistic, but expecting to see England come top of a group consisting of Wales, Slovakia and Russia isn't too much to ask. If they then come up against a streetwise Italian or German team for example and come unstuck, it becomes more acceptable for a young squad and easier to accept. I personally find what people accept as a 'good performance' by England worrying imo.
Excellent post
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ironilunga
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by ironilunga »

Nesticles wrote:but overall I think Hodgson is out of his depth.
That is being kind.

I think he is another in a long line of wet lettuces who is too scared to make the tough decisions. The FA love these sort of managers, limp wristed company men who will tow the party line with the minimum of fuss. McClaren, Sven, Southgate, Taylor, Wilkinson - All anemic appointments.

- Hodgson did not have the stones to select from two strikers so took both.
- The above decision leaves us light in midfield, which could well bite us on the arse.
- Out of blind loyalty he has taken a lame and unfit midfielder in Wilshire - which compounds the midfield issue.
- He treats the Slovakia game like a friendly, making 6 changes, a decision that back fires and means we could not only face Portugal instead of someone like Albania but also means we are in the massively more difficult side of the draw. A huge howler.
- He does not know his best team, something which is staggering given that at this stage it should be only small tweaks here and there rather than massive wholesale changes.

Love him or hate him but the last decent football manager England had was Glenn Hoddle (17 years ago). A man who knew his best team, would select on form (Owen) and who did not play favorites (Gazza).
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White Goodman
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by White Goodman »

Hoddle also got Eileen Drewery to work with the team, the prize ****ing helmet.

I can't imagine that is the best way to gain their respect.
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ironilunga
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by ironilunga »

White Goodman wrote:Hoddle also got Eileen Drewery to work with the team, the prize ****ing helmet.

I can't imagine that is the best way to gain their respect.
Whatever weirdness Hoddle brought with him he was more effective than anything that has gone since. Perhaps Woy should employ her faith healing properties to get Wack Wilshire watch wit.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by sendô »

Hoddle got the best out of the players at his disposal, and we were robbed in ET in that game vs Argentina despite going down to 10 men.
fmgod
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by fmgod »

I rate Hoddle but I also think that 98 team was the best since I've been alive it was solid all over even with depth, you even had two utterly class strikers in Shearer and Owen even Sheringham and Ferdinand on the bench. That squad is absolute quality when looking back, quality and depth everywhere.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by JerseyHammer »

I would certainly agree that he doesn't know his best 11.

I do fear a decent team now - get the feeling we'll be dismantled with somewhat ease. If we can't break down the Slovak defence (which played as well as it needed to) then we'll really struggle against a very well organised Italian or German defence. Those two teams in particular have a winning mentality which we seem to lack.

Might not get that far as Hungary and certainly Portugal (in which Ronaldo would surely turn up for) are no push overs.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by fmgod »

JerseyHammer wrote:I would certainly agree that he doesn't know his best 11.
This is my biggest bugbear he has had four years and he still doesn't have a clue what his best 11 is
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James P
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by James P »

fmgod wrote:This is my biggest bugbear he has had four years and he still doesn't have a clue what his best 11 is
Not sure what four years has to do with anything. The players available to him in 2012 were vastly different to the players available for 2016. Players like Dier, Delle Ali, Kane, Vardy amongst others have all established themselves as Premiership stars in the last two years. Hodgson has had the foresight to promptly recognise their ability and bring them into the England fold in a very limited number of games. International football is forever a work in progress.
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DDHammer
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by DDHammer »

fmgod wrote: This is my biggest bugbear he has had four years and he still doesn't have a clue what his best 11 is
2014 vs 2016

Leighton Baines - Danny Rose
Phil Jagielka - John Stones
Glen Johnson - Kyle Walker
Phil Jones - Nathaniel Clyne
Luke Shaw - Ryan Bertrand

Steven Gerrard - Deli Alli
Frank Lampard - Eric Dier

Rickie Lambert - Harry Kane
Danny Welbeck - Jamie Vardy

9 changes in the last 2 years alone. He'd know even less about his best XI trying to get Antonio, Noble, Cresswell, Carroll, Drinkwater, Dann etc. included based off the last 6 months.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by Bend it like Repka »

fmgod wrote:
This is my biggest bugbear he has had four years and he still doesn't have a clue what his best 11 is
Can you have a set best 11, unless you are one of the very top top sides? Against the smaller nations the onus is on us to attack as they sit deep, but against Spain and Germany we could be the counter attacking side. So Vardy for example is probably not the best choice against Slovakia, but may be perfect for Germany.

Also as others said, you can't plan 4 years in advance for players, only systems. No one would have considered that Vardy would be at the Euros pre Christmas this year.

I'd say since the last WC Roy has shown a preference for either the diamond or 433 and he is trying to work players in that system. So he has had a plan for a long time.

Whatever he does he will be hated by some. He obviously, whether we like it or not, identified Wiltshire as a key part of his plan and set up. So there is your long term view. Yet because he has now picked him rather than a supposedly in form Drinkwater he is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

It's a b*stard of a job. Many of us, including me, thought Rooney was past his best and hindered us at the last WC and should have been ignored going forward. Yet now the crowd were singing for him to come on against Slovakia as our saviour, the press have vilified Woy for benching him and to be fair he has been one of our best players. So has the manager been right to shift him into midfield or not? That wasn't his plan 4 months ago.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by Jumby »

And Rooney came on did nothing really, he's not an impact sub, whereas Carroll................

I'm glad they brought it up, after the defeat to one of the Dirk Digglers of the tournament I hope it gets brought up some more.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by Denbighammer »

The problem with being England boss is that if you decide on an eleven that you feel is definitely your best team and stick to it, as soon as a result doesn't go your way the press and public are clamouring for immediate changes and complaining the manager is inflexible and stubborn.

England have c.40 players who all have a valid claim for being in the squad at any one time. Unlike someone like Wales whose team basically picks itself.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by Denbighammer »

fmgod wrote:I rate Hoddle but I also think that 98 team was the best since I've been alive it was solid all over even with depth, you even had two utterly class strikers in Shearer and Owen even Sheringham and Ferdinand on the bench. That squad is absolute quality when looking back, quality and depth everywhere.
Agreed. Hugely unlucky v.The Argies too. I've always thought they were more hard-done by in 98' than they were in 86'. I genuinely believe we'd have made the final in 98' if we'd have got past Argentina.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by Bend it like Repka »

So Slovakia's "reward" for getting the point they needed, rather than showing some ambition in a game and at least trying to play on the break, is a match against Germany.

This is the point some of us were making. At least try and improve your group position, rather than settling for 3rd.

Hope they get tonked.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by bobcar »

Bend it like Repka wrote:So Slovakia's "reward" for getting the point they needed, rather than showing some ambition in a game and at least trying to play on the break, is a match against Germany.

This is the point some of us were making. At least try and improve your group position, rather than settling for 3rd.

Hope they get tonked.
They never thought they had a realistic chance of winning the tournament and getting through to the next round was a major achievement, their tactics achieved that ambition. If they had been more attacking they probably would have lost. They even got the warning of pushing up their defence when Vardy got and missed that one on one with the keeper and then defended deep which England don't have the players to deal with, that miss was crucial as without it England may well have won by three or four.

They will also be very defensive against Germany but at least will have to look at scoring on the break rather than substituting their striker for another defender.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

Their reward for their point against England is to make the knockout stages, against a team they beat 3-1 last month...

As for improving your group position, that worked out well for Italy didn't it? Their reward for topping the group are matches with Spain and potentially Germany. Belgium who come 2nd will probably have Wales as their hardest opponent before the semi...so finishing as high as you can in the groups clearly doesn't always yield a great draw.

Hopefully less teams think of it like that though and start bending over backwards for England...
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by bobcar »

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote: As for improving your group position, that worked out well for Italy didn't it? Their reward for topping the group are matches with Spain and potentially Germany. Belgium who come 2nd will probably have Wales as their hardest opponent before the semi...so finishing as high as you can in the groups clearly doesn't always yield a great draw.
Yes that defeat against Italy was probably one of Belgium's best results in a while.
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Re: England v Slovakia match thread

Post by James P »

I have absolutely no problem with our group opponents playing like they did. For the most part it worked for them and with the exception of Russia delivered what they were after, a place in the last 16. Fair play to them.

My issue is with 'fans' beating England with the "Wales scored 6 England scored 3" stick. The fact is both Russia and Slovakia approached their game with Wales totally different to how they approached their game with England. Our task against Slovakia bore no resemblance to Wales's. If Russia had left the amount of space for England that they left for Wales, we'd have put three past them too.
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