England v Iceland....

All discussion relating to the (next) big one including qualifying groups/matches.

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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby fjthegrey on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:13 pm

Has James been on yet to tell us how great we are and how positive we should be yet?
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Puff Daddy on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:27 pm

sjb958 wrote:I hate to admit this but deep down I think I wanted Iceland to win tonight. I've just come back from France and have watched Iceland twice in the competition so far - in Saint Etienne vs Portugal and in Marseille vs Hungary. I was incredibly impressed at how organised the team was and how much work ethic your players put into the game. I could tell every player knew exactly what their role was at all times, a credit to the coaching staff. Only one mistake was made by the left back to let a player inside him for the Hungary equaliser. Apart from that you were almost perfect in both the games. You were one of 15 teams I got to see while I was out there, and you were my favourites.

And I just love that chant you do:
Ooooooooh
Ooooooooh
Ooooooooh.......

I am embarrassed to admit that I cheered both your goals tonight as they went in. We were so bad that it was funny, but maybe your team helped to make us look that bad. You thoroughly deserved the victory tonight. Congratulations and good luck in the next round vs France, I think it will be a close game.



That chant is the football equivalent of The Haka
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Jumby on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:29 pm

:lol:
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby il_martello_di_genovesi on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:30 pm

rsnwhu wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQF8x-SCCco" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


That's fine, I'll be celebrating their exit to Belgium in similar fashion.

I do think it's poor for any Welsh footballer playing in the Premier League to be on video celebrating as such though...
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Jumby on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:34 pm

I think the whole World, barring England, celebrated like that.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby OFT on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:50 pm

Rooney: " sometimes in football the best team doesn't win"
:?
Wayne lad, wake the fork up, this time the best team did win you stupid complacent chitferbrains
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby sendô on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:00 pm

First off, hats off to Iceland. They came with a plan, defended as a team, attacked as a team, took their chances and are fully deserved winners.

As for England, well that has to be the single most embarrassing defeat in our history, which is saying something.

Many of us voiced major concerns before the tournament at this team, the management, the lack of shape, average performances and a lack of an alternate plan.

We were all dismissed by many, who pointed at our 100% record in qualifying, and our friendly wins away to a weakened Germany (when they fell asleep at the end) and France (about 3 days after the Paris attacks).

Taking an unfit Wilshere, an out of sorts Sterling and sticking with both for 4 games. Harry Kane taking corners and free kicks. Rooney in midfield. Taking Rashford but then not using him. What was Hodgsons plan B? Throw on all your strikers and play with no shape.

Heads need to roll, and not just Hodgson, Neville and the other idiot. We were embarrassed at the last World Cup but they were allowed to continue. We need a major overhaul that is long, LONG overdue in English football. It should not come as a surprise that an otherwise good collection of players have once again played AWFUL at a major tournament.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Morocco Mole on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:09 pm

We've been trying to shoe horn Shrek into the side for the last ten years in the mistaken belief he's our one world class player and we should build the side round him. Truth is he was only ever any good as an out an out striker and them days are long gone.

We currently have an extremely mediocre set of players, this is no Beckham/Gerrard 'Golden Generation', so why Hodgson thought he could get us playing like Spain shows just how utterly clueless the bloke is. If we're going to compete we'd be better of accepting our limitations and playing to our strengths. High intensity, direct football with wingers and Andy Carroll - at the very least as a plan B.

If it was up to me I'd go back and grovel cap in hand to Harry but since that's never gonna happen (and he'd probably rightly tell them to do one anyway) step forward Sam Allardyce.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Rio on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:14 pm

A complete shambles.

No direction. No one taking responsibility. A collective group of players without an ounce of footballing brain between them.

Hodgson's fallen on his sword and rightly so. But what about the players?

How many over hit passes were there? How many players running into trouble without a clue?

I'd quite gladly not see them anywhere near an England shirt again.

Our 'world class' skipper was near the top of the list of complete imbeciles on the pitch last night. And when the (frozen) chips were down what did he do? Rouse the troops, lead by example? No. He stank the place out and contributed to the most abject displays of passing I've ever seen by an international team.

Compared to his footballing peers, he is nothing more than a charlatan and a fraud.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby James P on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:44 pm

fjthegrey wrote:Has James been on yet to tell us how great we are and how positive we should be yet?


I'm not going to apologise for supporting my national team.

We were dreadful last night. Utterly dreadful. I can't defend that performance but neither do I understand it. I I can understand if people think those out there were the wrong players. I can understand if people think they are average players. (On the international stage, I think they are average players). They are not however terrible players. Last night they performed like terrible players. I don't understand it.

Maybe you're all right. Maybe Noble, Cresswell and Antonio are the answer. If they are I'll give credit where it's due. I'm ****ed if I know the answer.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby fjthegrey on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:54 pm

I don't think there is an answer mate.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby sendô on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:16 pm

James P wrote:I don't understand it.

I do, the manager is inept.

To get the best out of good players you have to play them in positions/a system that plays to their strengths.

Sturridge on the right, having to cut inside into traffic. Sterling on the left going round the outside but not being able to cross with his left. Rooney in midfield taking an age to try and pick a world class pass every ****ing time. Kane taking 40 yard free kicks and corners. Iceland defending narrow, so England trying to force the ball through the middle.

**** me it was so amateur it was embarrassing. What makes it worse is we all called it before the tournament and were shouted down as unpatriotic.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby bobcar on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:25 pm

sendô wrote:**** me it was so amateur it was embarrassing. What makes it worse is we all called it before the tournament and were shouted down as unpatriotic.


No, most of us had severe reservations about Hodgson and his squad before the tournament started. What many of us were complaining about was the way some posters actually wanted England to do badly.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby sendô on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:31 pm

There were also some who had a pop at anyone who criticised Hodgson or the team, or moaned that we looked **** and one dimentional.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Bend it like Repka on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:46 pm

sendô wrote:I do, the manager is inept.

To get the best out of good players you have to play them in positions/a system that plays to their strengths.

Sturridge on the right, having to cut inside into traffic. Sterling on the left going round the outside but not being able to cross with his left. Rooney in midfield taking an age to try and pick a world class pass every ****ing time. Kane taking 40 yard free kicks and corners. Iceland defending narrow, so England trying to force the ball through the middle.

**** me it was so amateur it was embarrassing. What makes it worse is we all called it before the tournament and were shouted down as unpatriotic.


Fair play, you called it before the tournament and I didn't.

I never expected us to get past the semis at best, but based on the evidence of our qualification (mainly 2 comfortable wins against the Swiss who are no idiots) plus reasonable performances in friendlies against France and Germany I though we were generally on the right track.

At that point I believed we have a decent group of young players, hunger, a team ethic without the cliques of old and in general our ball retention and pace of play had improved. Rooney was becoming periferal and no longer a certainty.

The alarm bells started with the formation in the Portugal friendly, but when I saw the formation against Russia I thought he'd got over it.

However firstly Slovakia and then Iceland he just lost the plot. I just can't fathom his thinking. For a man of his experience he literally had no plan other than get all his strikers on the pitch. None of that mad thinking was in evidence in the run up to the tournament, he just seem to ditch all his past experience and progress and start afresh with mayhem once he got to France.

I'm almost wondering whether the pressure has caused a mental breakdown such is the head**** that he fell into. He knew Wiltshire wasn't up to it after Slovakia yet picked him to turn the game around at half time. :?

He has gone from bigging up Barclay to ignoring him. It's like the old sensible Woy was kidnapped by Aliens a week before the tournament and replaced with a Sunday league manager. His substitutions against Iceland were the worst I have ever seen. I could think of a number of permutations that may have given us a chance, but not the ones he came up with. Sterling off, Barclay on, match 442 against them was the most obvious.


I'd love to hear him explain his thought process.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby James P on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:51 pm

sendô wrote:**** me it was so amateur it was embarrassing. What makes it worse is we all called it before the tournament and were shouted down as unpatriotic.


Shouted down? There's a reason Crouchy and I are being name checked in multiple threads this morning. It's far easier to remember the names of the five guys who supported the team than the fifty posters who were just calling everyone ****.

I repeatedly asked the hecklers to tell me who they would choose differently to Hodgson and was generally met with silence. It's really, really easy to just say everyone is **** and given England were never likely to make the semis you would have always been able to say I told you so.

Ultimately many have got what they wanted. England failed and Hodgson has gone. I think it is inevitable a number of West Ham players will get a cap before Christmas. I truly hope all you who said that was the way to go are right.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Iron-on-transfer on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:17 pm

James P wrote:Maybe you're all right. Maybe Noble, Cresswell and Antonio are the answer. If they are I'll give credit where it's due. I'm ****ed if I know the answer.


For me at least, it's not the old '66 chestnut of our players that should or would have made it right. It's not the point at all. It's the old England dinosaur mentality of if you don't wear a Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc. shirt then you don't even get considered and tried out during friendlies etc.

Yes Vardy went (how could he not this time) but wasn't even fully utilised - just like Rashford wasn't either. Milner, Henderson and Wiltshite all make the plane ahead of fit and in-form players like Drinkwater. Sterling over Townsend. Sturridge - ditto... and the ludicrous fact that even a clearly already crocked Delphe even gets included in the original 26 man squad tells you all you need to know about how club player selection works. Past tournaments when Rooney has a leg hanging off, he still goes regardless and I'm convinced this time around, even if Wiltshite's head was hanging off Woy would have still taken him.

If we've learnt anything this season it should be that team ethics and playing square pegs in their square holes is the right way to achieve. Leicester proved that theory. Players who know that no matter how they perform or how fit they are will always still be a shoe-in for the team regardless will NEVER work.

It's nothing to do with us on here having any blind bias towards West Ham players that were overlooked yet again (even though I do seriously feel Antonio would have been a real breath of fresh air in this lacklustre England setup) but it IS very much to do with England managers who consistently wear huge f**king blinkers when it comes to looking at all the available personnel that's out there.

Some 'lesser known' English players may just pull together and actually perform as a team. Let's face it, they certainly couldn't be any worse than what we've all seen over the last few tournaments, could they?
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby Kludgehammer on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:42 pm

If you look back over the comments from the 2014 World Cup in this forum, virtually all the criticism could be applied to the current team - lack of movement, can't control the ball, can't pass, can't defend, no defensive midfielder, no playmaker, Wilshire over-rated, etc etc. Absolutely no progression at all in those 2 years.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby sendô on Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:11 pm

James P wrote:I repeatedly asked the hecklers to tell me who they would choose differently to Hodgson and was generally met with silence. It's really, really easy to just say everyone is **** and given England were never likely to make the semis you would have always been able to say I told you so.

Ok, firstly when you asked who Hodgson should be replaced with, I replied with anyone who'd have the ****ing job. The idea that there's no-one in the whole country that couldn't do better than him is absurd.

Secondly, few of us expected us to win the whole thing, but the very least I ask is we put in some decent performances, try our hardest, look like a some way competent team given we are one of the largest and richest footballing nations in the world, and above all not crash out to a tiny island with a population smaller than Leicester.
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Re: England v Iceland....

Postby hammer the hamster on Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:16 pm

Reading back thought these posts and remembering back over a number of tournaments isn't it clear that the managers are just a small part of the problem. To me it is obvious that England's player lack technique first and foremost. I still hear pundits and managers banging on about moving into space to receive the ball. Yet I look at players of other countries that are happy to receive the ball with 2 or 3 players very close to them and more tellingly their team mates are happy to pass to them even though they are being closely marked.

The close control and speed of thought allows these continental players to 'have time' to lay the ball off in a 1 touch or at most a 2 touch movement.

England's players have to stop the ball, get it under control and then look up to see what is on. Until this is addressed at grass roots level and further up the food chain little will change.

I hear stories of lads local to me, that have been taken on as apprentices at league one and two clubs, that basically a lot of the coaching consists of being called a useless **** and being shouted at a lot.
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