#14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

All discussion relating to international tournaments including qualifying groups/matches. Since 2006.

Moderators: Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks

Post Reply
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44311
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2427 likes
Total likes: 2637 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by sendô »

Faithless wrote:However if they don't score/assist how long do you keep going for? They've played against Malta, Slovenia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Scotland in this WC qualifying campaign and not found the net once.
I see what you're saying, but for me at this point the qualifiers and friendlies are irrelevant - Southgate has picked his squad, these are the players you have. Sterling and Lingard are two of his key men, you cannot simply discard them after one game that we still won because they missed a couple of chances.

If Alli is out next match then he's got a chance to change it around a bit anyway, he can do a straight swap of Alli for RLC or Rashford, or else change it up and play Vardy - I think he'll do the former.

If we beat Panama but neither look great, then the Belgium game is a dead rubber and an opportunity for experimenting a bit more.

It's worth remembering, in terms of the squads, what's picked is what's picked. There's no changes now, so there's no point in saying things like "Sterling gets 10 chances a game for Citeh, I could score 23 a season for them". Given a relatively even playing field in terms of squad strengths, the teams that do best are generally the ones that gel together and play with confidence. The most important thing that Southgate can do from here onwards other than get the right balance in the line up is to keep all his players confident and positive. If they're all constantly terrified of making a mistake and getting crucified in the press then we're ****ed from the start.
User avatar
delbert
Posts: 27178
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:27 pm
Location: Barking, home of the slowly meandering Prius
Has liked: 699 likes
Total likes: 698 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by delbert »

sendô wrote: If Alli is out next match then he's got a chance to change it around a bit anyway, he can do a straight swap of Alli for RLC or Rashford, or else change it up and play Vardy - I think he'll do the former.

.
I'd like to see the later at some stage, probably at the Belgium game like you mentioned. After all, he's on fire and defences are terrified of him........
User avatar
Faithless
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: On a bubble nearing the sky.....Born 7 days too late...39 years n counting...Win a cup lads...

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Faithless »

sendô wrote:Sterling and Lingard are two of his key men, you cannot simply discard them after one game that we still won because they missed a couple of chances.


Just to clarify I'm not for a moment advocating "discarding" either of them but neither of them were key men in the build up to the tournament and un-dropable. I know you see the qualifiers/friendlies as irrelevant so we'll have to agree to disagree there (Lingard loses his only England goal if friendlies don't count ;))

Southgate may now see them as key men to his system and if that's the case then fine so be it, it's his call after all.
sendô wrote:If Alli is out next match then he's got a chance to change it around a bit anyway, he can do a straight swap of Alli for RLC or Rashford, or else change it up and play Vardy - I think he'll do the former.
I agree that he'll most likely go with the former but maybe he shouldn't. I understand giving youth a chance but, like JL & RS, swapping Ali (2 in 26 )with Rashford (2 in 20) is leaving a lot to wishful thinking. The way these youthful players are playing at the moment means the ball needs to find Kane or we ain't scoring.
sendô wrote: The most important thing that Southgate can do from here onwards other than get the right balance in the line up is to keep all his players confident and positive. If they're all constantly terrified of making a mistake and getting crucified in the press then we're ****ed from the start.
Are we assuming that Vardy and Welbeck are remaining confident and positive sitting on the bench seeing chance after chance squandered? They probably are to be fair both seem team players ;) but my point is it's not all about Lingard and Sterling. Like you say it's a squad and they all have a part to play.
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44311
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2427 likes
Total likes: 2637 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by sendô »

Faithless wrote:I know you see the qualifiers/friendlies as irrelevant so we'll have to agree to disagree there
They're irrelevant at this point is all I'm saying. In the midsts of a tournament, thinking back several months to how player x did against Malta doesn't really carry much.
Faithless wrote:Southgate may now see them as key men to his system and if that's the case then fine so be it, it's his call after all.
He clearly does which is the point, for him to decide they're important to him, and then drop them after one game because they missed a couple of chances would be lunacy.
Faithless wrote:Are we assuming that Vardy and Welbeck are remaining confident and positive sitting on the bench seeing chance after chance squandered? They probably are to be fair both seem team players ;)
I'm sure they are, the point is more about what it takes to keep those players confident. Change it around by all means, but I wouldn't drop both.
User avatar
EastBrisHammer
Posts: 732
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:24 pm
Total likes: 5 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by EastBrisHammer »

I think Lingard is important to the system. We need his pace and running at people. Unlike others I thought he had quite a good game. I would change Sterling for Rashford and Alli for RLC if Alli is not fit.
User avatar
James P
Posts: 16265
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: Romford
Has liked: 28 likes
Total likes: 171 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by James P »

Lingard and Sterling are in the side to provide more than just goals. If we continue to play well and win football matches I’m not overly concerned whether they’re the ones scoring or not.
User avatar
Carlton'sGoal
Posts: 1038
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Carlton'sGoal »

Some people are never going to like Sterling, he could score a hat trick in the final and the same people would be saying they were flukes and he was just there to tap them in (one of the weirdest insults towards an attacking player btw). He apparently can't finish yet has scored quite a few goals in his short career, if he put away every chance he got in a great position, he'd be hitting silly numbers.

Some people say it has undertones, and I think it does with a few people. Maybe people have just been told something enough that they believe by a Liverpool swayed media. They made him out as if he was going to be world class, and then as soon as he left, he was overrated.

Either way he's a young, exciting player, who from what a lot of respected people say, is also a hard working, down to earth lad. Get behind the kid for christ sake.

For what it's worth, I think that once he breaks this England scoring hoodoo, we'll see him play with freedom and show how good he actually is.
User avatar
Faithless
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: On a bubble nearing the sky.....Born 7 days too late...39 years n counting...Win a cup lads...

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Faithless »

Let the quotathon begin!
sendô wrote:They're irrelevant at this point is all I'm saying. In the midsts of a tournament, thinking back several months to how player x did against Malta doesn't really carry much.
Fair enough, I felt it was relevant as they're of a similar level to Panama
sendô wrote: I'm sure they are, the point is more about what it takes to keep those players confident. Change it around by all means, but I wouldn't drop both.
I wouldn't either. Out of the two I feel Lingard looks the most likely to produce something. I know it's subjective but I never feel confident Sterling will take a chance or choose the right pass (in an England shirt)
EastBrisHammer wrote:I think Lingard is important to the system. We need his pace and running at people. Unlike others I thought he had quite a good game. I would change Sterling for Rashford and Alli for RLC if Alli is not fit.
:thup:

OT: What is wrong with current sports people? Recently I've heard Tennis, Snooker, Football players etc consistently described as not confident in their game whilst being in the top 20, playing in later rounds of major tournaments or playing for their country. Surely being picked to play for your country or qualifying for a major gives you confidence that you're a good player. What does it take to give these players confidence? Or is just a new way of describing off form?
User avatar
Clacton-ammer
Sultan of Swing
Posts: 15767
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:28 am
Has liked: 342 likes
Total likes: 362 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Clacton-ammer »

Confidence Faithless - they are human after all. Comes down to man management, which I think Southgate is really good at.

Sterling, there is a match winner in there, I can feel it, Southgate backed him 100% after tattoo/late thing, has not quite filtered through to Sterlings confidence yet, but I am sure under Southgate it will
User avatar
Faithless
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: On a bubble nearing the sky.....Born 7 days too late...39 years n counting...Win a cup lads...

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Faithless »

Clacton-ammer wrote:Confidence Faithless - they are human after all. Comes down to man management, which I think Southgate is really good at.

Sterling, there is a match winner in there, I can feel it, Southgate backed him 100% after tattoo/late thing, has not quite filtered through to Sterlings confidence yet, but I am sure under Southgate it will
I understand they're human but I've been told on here how Sterling is a good finisher (after I said he's not a natural finisher), how this season he's out performed x number of players in assists, shots on target and goals etc and yet he pulls on an England shirt and he's a shadow of that player. :? I know it's all individual and mental states but if after a season like he's had I really am struggling to see what else can be done to give him confidence.

I do want you to be right though about there' being match winner in there and that he'll show it sooner rather than later.
User avatar
Carlton'sGoal
Posts: 1038
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Carlton'sGoal »

Faithless wrote:I really am struggling to see what else can be done to give him confidence.
Scapegoating him for the bad performances in 2016 when he was 21 probably did quite a bit of damage, only way to give him confidence is to let him make mistakes.
User avatar
Faithless
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: On a bubble nearing the sky.....Born 7 days too late...39 years n counting...Win a cup lads...

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Faithless »

James P wrote:Lingard and Sterling are in the side to provide more than just goals. If we continue to play well and win football matches I’m not overly concerned whether they’re the ones scoring or not.
I agree if we continue to play well and win. but we can only win by scoring (unless we start to win penalty shoot-outs) and currently that means Kane scores or nobody scores of our current first team which is my worry.

I shall now button it and no matter what happens on Sunday I won't mention Sterling unless it's in a positive :thup:
Carlton'sGoal wrote:Scapegoating him for the bad performances in 2016 when he was 21 probably did quite a bit of damage, only way to give him confidence is to let him make mistakes.
Fair enough :thup:
User avatar
Clacton-ammer
Sultan of Swing
Posts: 15767
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:28 am
Has liked: 342 likes
Total likes: 362 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Clacton-ammer »

Thing is Faithless, we had chances to score, agree that our finishing was not up to scratch. We did create chances though, that is the important part, if we did not create any chances then I would have the hump.
User avatar
Faithless
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: On a bubble nearing the sky.....Born 7 days too late...39 years n counting...Win a cup lads...

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by Faithless »

Clacton-ammer wrote:Thing is Faithless, we had chances to score, agree that our finishing was not up to scratch. We did create chances though, that is the important part, if we did not create any chances then I would have the hump.
It's ok I'm boring myself now beginning to sound like a broken record. :D
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44311
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2427 likes
Total likes: 2637 likes

Re: #14 England 2-1 Tunisia ~ Group G

Post by sendô »

Clacton-ammer wrote:Confidence Faithless - they are human after all. Comes down to man management, which I think Southgate is really good at.

Sterling, there is a match winner in there, I can feel it, Southgate backed him 100% after tattoo/late thing, has not quite filtered through to Sterlings confidence yet, but I am sure under Southgate it will
Yeah I think this is it for me, Sterling is capable of putting in some bad performances and fluffing his lines, but you know he's got the ability to absolutely destroy a decent opponent single handedly, which I'm not sure is something that we can say for anyone else in our squad bar Kane.
User avatar
'stone hammer
Posts: 3518
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Computer chair
Has liked: 718 likes
Total likes: 497 likes

Re: #14 England v Tunisia Match thread ~ Group G

Post by 'stone hammer »

Estuary wrote:
-Ronaldo is a one off, and can adapt his game to over come his own diminished pace.
I actually read this week that he has recorded the highest running speed at the world cup, with 34km/h, which roughly translates to 21mph. Unbelievable cosidering he's 33, I'll have what he's having
Post Reply