#4 Portugal 3-3 Spain ~ Group B

All discussion relating to the (next) big one including qualifying groups/matches.

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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby fmgod on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:58 pm

He doesn't command his area, he makes mistakes every so often, he made a mistake the other week before this game against Switzeland, he is a class shot stopper and makes camera/highlight saves yeah but worlds best not a chance, not saying he is crap by any stretch but he is a cog in the premier league hype machine, in the same way the english media were talking about kane as the world's best striker and linking Salah with Messi/Ronaldo levels

I mean I'd take

Oblak
Handonvic
Alisson
Navas
Courtois(maybe)
Nueur
Ter Stergen (maybe)

Just off the top of my head
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby e17 on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:05 pm

bristolhammerfc wrote:Best game of football I have seen in a long time

honestly the most I've enjoyed one since Germany destroyed Brazil
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby JerseyHammer on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:11 pm

Ronaldo steps up when it really, really counts. Consistently.

fmgod wrote: but he is a cog in the premier league hype machine


Regarding de Gea, he's not really done much wrong at all in recent times, I don't know if he's the number one keeper in the world but he can't be far off it not. As somerset said, he's saved Man Utd on loads of occasions.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby vietnammer on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:19 pm

Can't believe Iran are heading that group without having a shot on target. Definite screen-capture time.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby fmgod on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:20 pm

3 mistakes in his last four Spain games, mistake in the champions league second leg, big players need to turn up in the big games. I'd also argue playing in an LVG and mourinho team will make most keepers look Good. The top keepers may face two shots a game and do nothing for the rest of it, but it's saving them two shots and keeping concentration
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby Monkey Mike on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:30 pm

somerset-hammer wrote:^^^ tonight's mistake aside he has been pretty much faultless for what, 3-4 years now? Where would man Utd be without him, I can't think of a better keeper out there right now.


Darren Randolph?
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby S-H on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:36 pm

Ah, touché.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby WestHamByTheSea on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:46 pm

Now THAT was how you mutually decide to grind out a draw that benefits both sides who know that a draw will doubtless allow both teams to go through more or less unmolested for the rest of the group stage! Germany v Austria 1982 that was not.

One of those rare games of football that have no bearing on how your own team will fare, and that you hope will be the sort of spectacle that allows you to just sink into your chair and enjoy for what it is. They really don't happen very often - indeed those 2 grim snafus earlier in the day were far more typical of the norm.

Wonderful stuff. And if anyone is reading this in real time - highlights coming on now on ITV. :thup:
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby James P on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:23 pm

For me that shows why Ronaldo is the best.

He delivers on the grandest stage of all. He drags a lesser side to parity with a squad far superior. He is a difference maker.

Greatest of all time in my opinion.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby e17 on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:29 pm

James P wrote:For me that shows why Ronaldo is the best.

He delivers on the grandest stage of all. He drags a lesser side to parity with a squad far superior. He is a difference maker.

Greatest of all time in my opinion.

He’d only scored 3 World Cup goals before today though

Needs to own this tournament to be put on the level of Pele or Diego
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby e17 on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Also, he’s scored more goals against Armenia for Portugal than he has Brazil, Germany, England & France combined. ie: none. And he hobbled off early in their one trophy win.

Not denying he’s a top 5 of all time, but Maradona dragged that lot to winning Mexico 86 & nearly a terrible lot to Italia 90
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby James P on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:14 am

I wish it wasn’t the case but club football has surpassed international football as the showcase of the greats. Ronaldo has won an international trophy and has maintained a place at the pinnacle of club football for over a decade. He plays in an era when football is more competitive as a global sport than ever and is an athlete beyond any in the game in Pele or Maradona’s era.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby Coops on Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:53 am

fmgod wrote:3 mistakes in his last four Spain games, mistake in the champions league second leg, big players need to turn up in the big games. I'd also argue playing in an LVG and mourinho team will make most keepers look Good. The top keepers may face two shots a game and do nothing for the rest of it, but it's saving them two shots and keeping concentration


100% right.
Put Adrian behind a Mourinho defence and de Gea behind our Dads army defence and people would clam Adrain is the best keeper in the world while de Gea needs replacing.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby bristolhammerfc on Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:38 am

Ronaldo is a great player, but for me not one of the greatest.

In today's sterile game, where tackling is akin to manslaughter in the eyes of a generation who wants goals before anything else, he flourishes. In an era where the craftsman were those allowed to use their guile and skill to make tackles without fear of eight barrel rolls when the player hit the floor, I am not so sure.

Maldini, Passarella, Mattahus would all rank above him.

For creativity, again in an era of a much more even game rules wise, Maradonna, Hadji, Socrates, Platini would all be above him.

In terms of finishers, Van Basten, Klinsmann, Rummenigge, Cruyff and even Cantona would be above him.

I think the game favours the forward now which is more the pity.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby carnage on Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:57 am

De Gea is by a distance the best keeper I have seen play in England and there is nobody better in World football.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby e17 on Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:28 am

carnage wrote:De Gea is by a distance the best keeper I have seen play in England and there is nobody better in World football.

Yeah ageee with that

On the Ronaldo debate - even if it was an argument about how club football has overtaken international, I’ve yet to see Ronaldo play for a club like Napoli and win them titles at a point where the likes of Juve or Milan were (& are) the standard big teams.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby Coops on Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:15 am

Ronaldo is probably the best player in the world right now. But he is well short of being one of the best ever IMO.
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby bristolhammerfc on Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:33 am

carnage wrote:De Gea is by a distance the best keeper I have seen play in England and there is nobody better in World football.



This
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby Slacking student on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:13 am

Coops wrote:Ronaldo is probably the best player in the world right now. But he is well short of being one of the best ever IMO.


Messi trumps him to that particular honour
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Re: Portugal v Spain Match thread~ Group B

Postby szola on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:18 am

bristolhammerfc wrote:Ronaldo is a great player, but for me not one of the greatest.

Fair enough. Although it takes plenty of good arguments to claim that a player who has been voted the best player of that year, four times iirc, when competing with most likely the best attacking player in the game ever, isn't one of the best ever.

bristolhammerfc wrote:In today's sterile game, where tackling is akin to manslaughter in the eyes of a generation who wants goals before anything else, he flourishes. In an era where the craftsman were those allowed to use their guile and skill to make tackles without fear of eight barrel rolls when the player hit the floor, I am not so sure.

Maldini, Passarella, Mattahus would all rank above him.


An odd way to desribe the efforts to ban career-ending tackles, and cheating. I'd say there is an element of culural bias, as English football has always been closer linked to Rugby, than the football nurtured overseas. Eitherway it makes little sense in comparing how hard we imagine players of previous generations were, compared to the ones playing now. You can only compete against what is placed in front of you.


bristolhammerfc wrote:For creativity, again in an era of a much more even game rules wise, Maradonna, Hadji, Socrates, Platini would all be above him.


What do you mean by 'an era of a much more even game rules'? If there has ever been a more even game than now, with all the lenses and slow motion analysis, when was that?

I can't remember Socrates play, the other though would not have been on a higher level than Ronaldo. Did you watch the game? He is positioning himself, making runs, pointing and telling his team how to play down to the last detail. Remember the Euro final when he was injured? He was practically running the game for Portugal.

He has been honed to be a finisher now in his latter years, to preserve his fitness for what is in most cases a grueling season. Before that he was scoring and assisting in buckets.

bristolhammerfc wrote:In terms of finishers, Van Basten, Klinsmann, Rummenigge, Cruyff and even Cantona would be above him.


Just look at the numbers. You might not like his hairstyle, or his tan. Forget that. Forget that statute. Just look at how many goals, in what competitions, he has scored.

bristolhammerfc wrote:I think the game favours the forward now which is more the pity.


For hard full-contact games, there is always Rugby, Ice-Hockey even Waterpolo to enjoy. Football is more beautiful when a team attacks, then defends. It's where you make surprising decisions that excite the audience, it's where you display you technical abilities. Defending is morale and athleticism.
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