VAR, For or against
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- The Old Mile End
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Re: VAR, For or against
Anyone who has seen it in Serie A, knows it is poor, I've seen countless poor decisions given even when reviewed or the most baffling one was to see if Dybala was offside, they watched the whole clip and picked up something Lichsteiner did 30 seconds before hand, when it wasn't even reviewed for that.
- The Old Mile End
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Re: VAR, For or against
As for allowing a team say three appeals to use the system - what's the point of that?
Teams will use it as another means to run down the clock at the end of a game by creating issues in the box.
Also, after three appeals, what if there is a genuine obvious decision given wrong? With no appeals left, does that not totally defeat the purpose of VAR in the first place?
How it is presently, what happens when play is allowed to continue after a penalty claim, and a team goes up the other end and scores. VAR rule comes in and play is taken back to the penalty. Is the "goal" now ruled out? Good luck with that one at some stadiums in the world.
Teams will use it as another means to run down the clock at the end of a game by creating issues in the box.
Also, after three appeals, what if there is a genuine obvious decision given wrong? With no appeals left, does that not totally defeat the purpose of VAR in the first place?
How it is presently, what happens when play is allowed to continue after a penalty claim, and a team goes up the other end and scores. VAR rule comes in and play is taken back to the penalty. Is the "goal" now ruled out? Good luck with that one at some stadiums in the world.
- sendô
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Re: VAR, For or against
Against.
The over riding issue seems to be most referees don't know the laws of the game, hence why they keep giving penalties for handball when they are anything but deliberate. The Ronaldo yellow card last night was a farce too.
On top of that, they seem to be stopping to check VAR for everything, whether they understand it or not, and the sight of the ref running off the pitch to look at the TV screen, when there's a 4th official standing there doing bugger all anyway, is ridiculous, and the sight of all the players doing that stupid VAR sign to the ref at every foul/non-foul is irritating.
It seems to have made play acting worse too.
The over riding issue seems to be most referees don't know the laws of the game, hence why they keep giving penalties for handball when they are anything but deliberate. The Ronaldo yellow card last night was a farce too.
On top of that, they seem to be stopping to check VAR for everything, whether they understand it or not, and the sight of the ref running off the pitch to look at the TV screen, when there's a 4th official standing there doing bugger all anyway, is ridiculous, and the sight of all the players doing that stupid VAR sign to the ref at every foul/non-foul is irritating.
It seems to have made play acting worse too.
- Porkeyes
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Re: VAR, For or against
The fact that a World Cup game last night was dominated by people clambering for VAR for every single incident is reason enough to ditch it. The players were just pathetic. As soon as someone touches someone else they leap in the air a roll around the floor grimacing whilst all their team mates are making squares and surrounding the ref. The managers were at it as well, he had a VAR review so I want one even though it's a weak one. It has actually made the cheating and playacting worse. Then to top it all 2 minutes or more drifts by with the ref watching a TV screen after which he makes the wrong call anyway!!
Just stop it.
Just stop it.
- continental skills
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Re: VAR, For or against
After last night's farcical penalty for Iran, I get anyone calling to have the VAR experiment abandoned.
However, last night's referee was poor, with or without the help of VAR. He missed the foul on Ronaldo (a clear one in my eyes), seemed unable to deal with all the diving and playacting, and made two bizarre judgements on the things he was able to review (the potential red card for Ronaldo, which I thought was nothing, but if he gives a foul then it has to be a red card, and the above mentioned penalty for handball).
There have also been several incidents where the VAR refs should have stepped in, but didn't (the wrestling of Kane - twice - and Mitrovic were the clearest ones, but also several tackles in the Spain-Morocco game).
On the other hand, VAR has got a lot right - the best of these decisions being the non-penalty for Neymar, which the referee actually awarded real-time. And if the players accept those decisions, then there is little argument about them. Last night, the Iranians refused to accept the Ronaldo penalty decision and constantly pressurised the ref after he'd corrected his original decision to use VAR to give them something, anything. And he duly obliged. Weak refereeing all round.
The issue for me is less VAR as a tool, but more the lack of consistency and transparency. Something which football referees and governing bodies have never been particularly good at anyway.
I still don't understand whether all situations are constantly under review by the VAR refereeing panel during the game, or whether they have to be specifically asked to review something by the on-field referee.
And judging from last night's fiasco, it's the on-field referee who makes the final call, after reviewing footage of
the relevant incident. But what exactly is their remit?
However, last night's referee was poor, with or without the help of VAR. He missed the foul on Ronaldo (a clear one in my eyes), seemed unable to deal with all the diving and playacting, and made two bizarre judgements on the things he was able to review (the potential red card for Ronaldo, which I thought was nothing, but if he gives a foul then it has to be a red card, and the above mentioned penalty for handball).
There have also been several incidents where the VAR refs should have stepped in, but didn't (the wrestling of Kane - twice - and Mitrovic were the clearest ones, but also several tackles in the Spain-Morocco game).
On the other hand, VAR has got a lot right - the best of these decisions being the non-penalty for Neymar, which the referee actually awarded real-time. And if the players accept those decisions, then there is little argument about them. Last night, the Iranians refused to accept the Ronaldo penalty decision and constantly pressurised the ref after he'd corrected his original decision to use VAR to give them something, anything. And he duly obliged. Weak refereeing all round.
The issue for me is less VAR as a tool, but more the lack of consistency and transparency. Something which football referees and governing bodies have never been particularly good at anyway.
I still don't understand whether all situations are constantly under review by the VAR refereeing panel during the game, or whether they have to be specifically asked to review something by the on-field referee.
And judging from last night's fiasco, it's the on-field referee who makes the final call, after reviewing footage of
the relevant incident. But what exactly is their remit?
Last edited by continental skills on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Faithless
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Re: VAR, For or against
continental skills wrote:I still don't understand whether (a) all situations are constantly under review by the VAR refereeing panel during the game, or whether they have to be (b)specifically asked to review something by the on-field referee. And judging from last night's fiasco, it's the on-field referee who makes the final call, after reviewing footage of the relevant incident. But (c) what exactly is their remit?
(a) They are. VAR is literally supposed to be 3 extra refs watching the game "live" and reviewing anything that they see falls into the narrow remit of issues FIFA let's them act upon.
(b) The on-field referee is not allowed to ask for anything to be reviewed (why? no idea at all works in Rugby just dandy).
(c) Remit wise they can review goals, red cards, penalties and mistaken identity only.
So VAR says (well we don't know cos like you say there's no consistency and transparency) something like we think you've got that handball decision incorrect go and review it. So 3 blokes miles away tell the guy at the ground he's probably got it wrong and then he has to review it watched by millions and decided if he was right and 3 guys looking at replays are wrong or he's wrong. Pierluigi Collina or Howard Webb might of had the balls to deal with that pressure I'm not sure about most of the others.
- continental skills
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- sendô
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Re: VAR, For or against
There's a few fundamental issues though with the VAR thing.
1. It's been rushed in to this World Cup and not properly enacted. You'd think they'd want it in domestic football a bit longer before sullying a WC with it. As per what Faithless has listed above, the remit seems weird. The whole ref running to the sideline to watch the TV is weird. The ref not being able to ask for it is weird.
2. Even if they get VAR right, again there's a fundamental failure with most refs to either understand the laws of the game, or else a lack of will to implement them. How many times have we seen BT Sport consult Mark Prattenburg or Howard Plebb for them to blather some b*llocks about un-natural positions for arms or "contact" for penalties.
1. It's been rushed in to this World Cup and not properly enacted. You'd think they'd want it in domestic football a bit longer before sullying a WC with it. As per what Faithless has listed above, the remit seems weird. The whole ref running to the sideline to watch the TV is weird. The ref not being able to ask for it is weird.
2. Even if they get VAR right, again there's a fundamental failure with most refs to either understand the laws of the game, or else a lack of will to implement them. How many times have we seen BT Sport consult Mark Prattenburg or Howard Plebb for them to blather some b*llocks about un-natural positions for arms or "contact" for penalties.
- Faithless
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Re: VAR, For or against
continental skills wrote:Thanks for the clarification
Like sendô says it's been rushed in at a one of the worlds most prestigious sporting events and has been shown wanting. At best it's incompetence from FIFA at worse it's deliberate, they've fought video assistance and goal line tech for years for no apparent reason, so it wouldn't surprise me they don't want it to work.
I'm kinda having this debate across a few threads :lol:sendô wrote:there's a fundamental failure with most refs to either understand the laws of the game, or else a lack of will to implement them. How many times have we seen BT Sport consult Mark Prattenburg or Howard Plebb for them to blather some b*llocks about un-natural positions for arms or "contact" for penalties.
It all stems from the top, the laws are clear, the action to be taken is clear. How can they get it wrong so badly and so often? I think that the level of outright cheating that players/managers engage in, not to mention media that don't have a clue, and the subsequent lack of support by the governing bodies leaves the refs all most dumbfounded. I mean in some games there'd be nobody without a card and a number of games would be abandoned as teams wouldn't have 7 players left on the pitch (3 nil walkover anyone? )
- brothernero
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Re: VAR, For or against
Faithless wrote:[I'm kinda having this debate across a few threads :lol:
Your just a typical Mass Debater arn't you mate.
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Re: VAR, For or against
I'm in favour of it. The added drama of a video review for a penalty or possible sending off added a lot to the Iran vs Portugal match, in my opinion.
I do think it needs some proper integration to the rules of the game, though, and more thorough testing. It all feels like it's been rushed in and nobody is especially clear on the use of it, least of all the referees themselves.
And I really don't like seeing players and managers making the video review signal with their hands.
I do think it needs some proper integration to the rules of the game, though, and more thorough testing. It all feels like it's been rushed in and nobody is especially clear on the use of it, least of all the referees themselves.
And I really don't like seeing players and managers making the video review signal with their hands.
Re: VAR, For or against
For the technology, Against how it is being used
The problem is the same as we see week in week out in the league. Consistency. In principle it is a powerful tool that can be used to aid the referee. taking the wresting in the box indecent on Kane it fair to assume the Ref simply didn't see it and it's at times like that the video ref should be in his ear saying there was contact please come to the side to review it, then together they agree or disagree on the outcome reviewing it together.
how it was used in the England game to check for offside on close calls I though was pretty good but it took too long, it took seconds for the broadcaster to show it and we could all see the outcome while we wait for them to review it for a further few mins.
The problem is the same as we see week in week out in the league. Consistency. In principle it is a powerful tool that can be used to aid the referee. taking the wresting in the box indecent on Kane it fair to assume the Ref simply didn't see it and it's at times like that the video ref should be in his ear saying there was contact please come to the side to review it, then together they agree or disagree on the outcome reviewing it together.
how it was used in the England game to check for offside on close calls I though was pretty good but it took too long, it took seconds for the broadcaster to show it and we could all see the outcome while we wait for them to review it for a further few mins.
- Faithless
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Re: VAR, For or against
It's a full time occupation, wasn't called Master Bates for nothing matebrothernero wrote:Your just a typical Mass Debater arn't you mate.
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Re: VAR, For or against
Yes that bit's a bit annoying..I thought it was only going to be used for tight decisions, now it seems every goal needs to go to VAR for checking, which takes the spontaneity out of the game.goa127 wrote:Against big time. Football's exiting because when you score it's a rare event and it's an explosion of emotion. Now you'll be saying 'great goal if var allows it'. Polite clap
The technology is fine, but as we have seen in the PL officials are inconsistent and can still give strange decisions. I remember a quote by Clattenberg? (I think) who talked about "game management". I wonder if that's what they get up to…i.e. "Well if we send Ronaldo off it could ruin the game" rather than "definite elbow…red". It's not their job to do the former, just the latter.
- Morocco Mole
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