Gareth Southgate

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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby delbert on Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:07 pm

If Allardyce wasn't such a grasping twot then no doubt he'd still be in charge and as likely as not we'd already be home after another embarrassing tournament.

The real hero here is Fat Sam for putting greed before country and delivering us the Messiah........ :D
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby e17 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:31 am

Alas no wastecoat World Cup for this charming man

Its destiny: he will lead us to a semi final win at the Euros in 2 years time against the Germans

Forget Mbappe or Modric - The star of this entire tournament for me.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby jacko on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:15 am

I do think people have gone way overboard about him. His subs throughout the tournament were pretty poor. Looking at our results we played two top level teams and lost both those games.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby simon hammer on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:21 am

We are heading in the right direction, and like the team he still has lots to learn. Still...I haven't been this optimistic about England for years.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby e17 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:28 am

jacko wrote:I do think people have gone way overboard about him. His subs throughout the tournament were pretty poor. Looking at our results we played two top level teams and lost both those games.

He took a work in progress young team from a nation who’s support had mainly given up any expectation or positivity and got them to the World Cup semi final.

It’s two years since Iceland showed up everything that came before Southgate.

Losing to Belgium was a master stroke as we wouldn’t have beaten Brazil let alone France at those stages, and his decision to switch to 3-5-2 and to keep to a more or less set starting 11 got us as far as anyone would have with the inexperience and options on offer.

His subs were why we beat Columbia, like the squad itself, his decisions against Croatia didn’t matter. It was 2-0 or bust in that first half and sadly it was bust. Too much class and experience in their team.

He’ll learn as his squad will. But for a first major tournament as England manager: 10/10

only Bobby Robson and Alf Ramsey got us this far?
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Clacton-ammer on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:49 am

E17 :thup:

Sir Gareth of Southgate is a 10/10, agreed 100%.

What I still believe many of us want in football, so including West Ham very much in this, is have something to be proud of, players/managers/coaching staff that have passion and want to play for the team/shirt.

It's not rocket science, it's a desire to give your all. Our superb supporters at the end clapping the team epitomises everything I feel about football. Win/lose/draw, entertain us and give your all then I am happy.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Upminster Hammer on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:55 am

I also think thy hype is a bit too much, we scraped a victory against Tunisia, beat Panama, took Columbia to penalties and put in a good performance against Sweden.

Yes we played better football but it wasn't great, and we played with more dignity than other countries but I can not foresee us ever having an easier route in a world cup, at least in my lifetime.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Happyhammer52 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:06 am

jacko wrote:I do think people have gone way overboard about him. His subs throughout the tournament were pretty poor. Looking at our results we played two top level teams and lost both those games.


Quite, his rushed substitution last night of bringing Rashford on showed his naivety. There was no real plan of action for him, a real panicked substitution.

In truth, the game plan of hitting it long to Kane in the hope he could hold it up or knock it to Sterling was straight from the Allardyce book of tricks.

Having absolutely no back up plan cost England a place in the Final.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby jacko on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:11 am

Sorry, but I don't see how his subsitutions against Colombia allowed us to win. We lost control of the game. Did we manage one shot on target? I know no one is allowed to criticise him we were poor for a lot of the game against Colombia.

Don't get me wrong, he did a good job but I wouldn't give him 10 out of 10.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby swash on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:19 am

Definitely not a 10 out of 10, he is a work in progress, much like the squad itself. Biggest positive for me, is that he gets what it takes to be a good international manager, and got the best that he could out of a squad that did not not look to have nearly enough quality to get to a World Cup semi-final.

Some of his predecessors were blessed with far more talent at their disposal, but effectively blew their chances before a ball was even kicked.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby e17 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:33 am

jacko wrote:Sorry, but I don't see how his subsitutions against Colombia allowed us to win. We lost control of the game. Did we manage one shot on target? I know no one is allowed to criticise him.

No need for the WHU afflicted "no one is allowed to criticise him" stuff, Jacko. Of course we're allowed to criticise him.. I think what has made the fella so refreshing during this tournament is that he's clearly open to growing and learning as a manager, and there's LOADS of room for improvement.

Columbia were a grizzled and cynical bunch, we had 16 shots to their 14, we had more possession, they had almost double the fouls. He brought Dier (who scored the winning penalty) and Rose on at a point where we needed to slow the game down and retain the ball.

He won the game via penalties against a team featuring the likes of Falcao and against a massive yellow army of support. Not many England managers can say that.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Westbourne Bill on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:19 am

He's lumbered with a technically average squad who get by in the prem but are unable to influence a match at the very top level, be it WC or Champions League. If there's a nugget or three on the conveyor belt that is St Georges Park to change that he might be the man to get us close again. Otherwise I doubt Shelvey, Lallana or Wilshere would have made much difference - nor will they in the future.

For a month we forgot his lads were young millionaires and I actually got to like them and respect their efforts. Even the Spurs players who (Trippier, and Kane apart) were poor.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:58 am

I hope you don't mind me saying this , but I'm sure you'll all agree with me anyway , the England management and set-up had been disastrous for years , decades , for some odd reason the FA always manage to pick the wrong man , since Sir Alf's reign how many England Managers were successful , how many were even likeable ? Their first mistake post Ramsay was to appoint Don Revie , they got it right with Ron Greenwood and Bobby Robson [ my personal favourite ] , I truly felt sorry for dear old Graham Taylor [ but he should have stayed at Watford ] I liked Venables and Hoddle's style of play but after that it was disaster after disaster until by accident you appointed Gareth Southgate - your problem was too many foreign managers [ though you did ok under Sven ] and the bloody Media , the Sun in particular - they ruined Graham Taylor's career and the Wally With The Brolly's [ great headline though it was ] .

You now have a fine man at the helm , he won't be caught out by some dodgy reporter , he's dignified and smart and best of all he's English - it seems like only yesterday that Gareth Southgate was appointed England Manager and he got you to a World Cup Semi Final during his first go - if the Media behave themselves and he chooses the players in form and not only the ones playing for the Top 4 then he'll continue to do you proud .
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Clucking Bell on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:34 pm

Westbourne Bill wrote:He's lumbered with a technically average squad who get by in the prem but are unable to influence a match at the very top level, be it WC or Champions League.


I think that the problem is that we rarely breed top-level creative midfielders in this country. We're pretty good a turning out defenders and fast, fit wingers and strikers aren't a problem either. We just lack footballing nous and guile in the middle of the park. We have done for years and, in fact, the only English midfielder of the last thirty years that could have taken Modric's place in Croatia's midfield was Paul Gascoigne. I think many of us hoped Joe Cole would grow into that sort of player but, he never did.

Kane apart, none of the others are in the top three players in their club sides. Certainly from a creative perspective at least. Sterling is the only Englishman who plays in City's front six and skills-wise can't hold a candle to Jesus, Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne and, now, Mahrez. But they're all good enough to play to his strengths. It's the same throughout the league: the most skilful players are never the Englishmen.

So much as I respect the opinion of people who say we should have taken Barkley, Wilshere or Lallana; all three of them are still water carriers and none of them would get into a side like Croatia.

That doesn't mean we're a bad team and Southgate deserves a great deal of credit for developing an effective system that doesn't require that type of player and he'll have to continue to do so for the simple reason that players like Bobby Charlton, Paul Gascoigne and Luka Modric are, for want of a better phrase, 'touched by God'. They don't grow into great players, they were born great players and they're like Mbappe: the best player in the team before they're out of their teens so, unless we've got someone like that in the U-17 or U-20 teams, we'll continue to struggle against the top sides because hard work, fitness, pace and organization can only take you so far.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby DasNutNock on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:37 pm

Clucking Bell wrote:I think many of us hoped Joe Cole would grow into that sort of player but, he never did.


I believe we have Mourhino's relentless commitment to dour football to thank for that. Coached all the imagination out of him in an effort to turn him into a more rigid player - what a waste.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Clacton-ammer on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:40 pm

Yep, Mourinho destroyed his creative side.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby warp on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:14 pm

DasNutNock wrote:I believe we have Mourhino's relentless commitment to dour football to thank for that. Coached all the imagination out of him in an effort to turn him into a more rigid player - what a waste.

he tried to do the same with hazard too if i remember correctly. but yea', special manager.



Clacton-ammer wrote:Sir Gareth of Southgate is a 10/10, agreed 100%.

What I still believe many of us want in football, so including West Ham very much in this, is have something to be proud of, players/managers/coaching staff that have passion and want to play for the team/shirt.

It's not rocket science, it's a desire to give your all. Our superb supporters at the end clapping the team epitomises everything I feel about football. Win/lose/draw, entertain us and give your all then I am happy.


but still doesn't mean everything was perfect.
it's not binary, it's ok to be very good, but with some flaws.
i think he should have done something in the second half yesterday, other than some like for like subs, for example. or benching largely ineffective players like lingard and alli, or even sterling. he seems not to have a proper answer (yet?) for when things don't go too well.

he led a good but not great side to overachieve, and that's no mean feat. now is time to build on it and improve. if someone convinces him he's been a 10/10 that's not going to happen.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Faithless on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Could you imagine what Pep/Klopp/Potch or even our very own Pellers would have got out of Joe? Instead he got the Portuguese Allardyce, such a shame.

Re Southgate I imagine he wanted to take Ox and Lallana, possibly Barkley and if Wilshere's hadn't puled out of the Netherlands and Italy friendlies through injury him as well. They may not be world beaters but they'd have offered us more versatility in midfield. Sometimes the dice just don't roll the way you hope they will, How different would Croatia have been without Modric, Perisic and Rakitic for the entire tournament?

My only criticism from last night was why not switch Sterling and Alli around in the second half. Get Alli to sit on Modric to restrict him and Sterling could've helped close down the fullback. We'd still of had the out balls down both flanks.

His like for like subs suggest that despite what was said publicly and to the squad that he only really trusted Dier, Rashford, Vardy and Rose (Possibly Delph) in the games that matter.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby Clacton-ammer on Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:59 pm

For sure Warp, the team needs improvements, its a work in progress, we all know this and more importantly Southgate does.

But from where we were 5 weeks ago, to where we are now, he deserves a 10/10 for giving us an England team we like and admire, and a team that made the semi final of the WC, which I thought was best knockout stages, maybe if we get lucky a 1/4 final. They overachieved, so nice to be over, as usually we under...

His problem now is that we expect now, and we will be looking for the improvements that we all know is needed.
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Re: Gareth Southgate

Postby jacko on Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:52 pm

e17 wrote:No need for the WHU afflicted "no one is allowed to criticise him" stuff, Jacko. Of course we're allowed to criticise him.. I think what has made the fella so refreshing during this tournament is that he's clearly open to growing and learning as a manager, and there's LOADS of room for improvement.

Columbia were a grizzled and cynical bunch, we had 16 shots to their 14, we had more possession, they had almost double the fouls. He brought Dier (who scored the winning penalty) and Rose on at a point where we needed to slow the game down and retain the ball.

He won the game via penalties against a team featuring the likes of Falcao and against a massive yellow army of support. Not many England managers can say that.


We had two shots on target in the whole match.

Dier was awful when he came on. I don't think we looked like winning the game after they equalised.

Did we beat one team in the tournament who was ranked above us?

I think he did a brilliant job of creating a team spirit. I think that is something to admire. But did we get the best out of Kane in the last three games? I don't think so.

I am not saying he didn't do a good job but he has certainly been given an easy ride..
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