#62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

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The Old Man of Storr
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

I think the England defence are getting a lot of unfair criticism for the Mandzukic goal ,Walker , Stones and Maguire had given it their all , the Croatian header was lucky and Mandzukic was facing the right way , he's a clever , experienced striker - just one of those lucky breaks and it fell to Croatia .

Those self same players were magnificent against Colombia and Sweden - they all go home with their heads held high .
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Samba »

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I think the England defence are getting a lot of unfair criticism for the Mandzukic goal ,Walker , Stones and Maguire had given it their all , the Croatian header was lucky and Mandzukic was facing the right way , he's a clever , experienced striker - just one of those lucky breaks and it fell to Croatia .
Those self same players were magnificent against Colombia and Sweden - they all go home with their heads held high .
I think it's just disappointment, TOMoS.
If it had been a world class goal that had beat us, we could have no complaints. To me, it wasn't. Well, what led up to him getting the ball, wasn't. It was a bit of a damp squib of a goal to concede, after all the hard work.
Having said that, I'm not at all sure that we would have beaten France in the final & I can't help thinking, to have lost in the final, would have felt worse.
I still think England are lacking a Gazza or an English Payet. A player that is almost impossible to contain because they are so unpredictable. Or even your own, Gareth Bale.
The trouble is, those players don't come along, that often.
There's certainly still quite a bit to work on/put right, even having made the semi-final.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I think the England defence are getting a lot of unfair criticism for the Mandzukic goal ,Walker , Stones and Maguire had given it their all , the Croatian header was lucky and Mandzukic was facing the right way , he's a clever , experienced striker - just one of those lucky breaks and it fell to Croatia .

Those self same players were magnificent against Colombia and Sweden - they all go home with their heads held high .

I agree with the sentiment TOMOS, they were tired and without doubt, they gave it their all in every game. However, watch the goal again and keep your eyes on Stones and Mandzukic. Stones really ought to be reacting much much quicker there, a massive loss of concentration, he started ahead of Mandzukic, as soon as that ball is heading back towards the goal he should be turning. Mandzukic had the time to turn run and get 2 yards on Stones before our lad had even reacted. In that situation, Mandzukic made his own luck.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by Up the Junction »

I read that England created six shots on target from open play in ten hours of tournament football.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by Patito »

Up the Junction wrote:I read that England created six shots on target from open play in ten hours of tournament football.

Backs up what a few people have been saying - we lack that creative midfielder.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by Clacton-ammer »

We still scored a lot though...

We all know we need more creativity, it's as plain as a plain thing on a plain day. We also need our players to have the confidence in playing a killer ball instead of the safe option. There were players making good runs, particularly Sterling, but ball went safe instead of killer - just confidence & of course awareness, awareness being the more difficult one to sort.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

Samba wrote: I think it's just disappointment, TOMoS.
If it had been a world class goal that had beat us, we could have no complaints. To me, it wasn't. Well, what led up to him getting the ball, wasn't. It was a bit of a damp squib of a goal to concede, after all the hard work.
Having said that, I'm not at all sure that we would have beaten France in the final & I can't help thinking, to have lost in the final, would have felt worse.
I still think England are lacking a Gazza or an English Payet. A player that is almost impossible to contain because they are so unpredictable. Or even your own, Gareth Bale.
The trouble is, those players don't come along, that often.
There's certainly still quite a bit to work on/put right, even having made the semi-final.
Yes , of course , very understandable .

Fatigue had set in , mate and they were caught unawares by a lucky header - it happens and someone had to lose , better that way than for some unlucky individual to let down the nation by missing a penalty .
I like Barkley and now Wilshere is West Ham , I like him too .
Plenty of time to experiment with different players now , the pressure is off - he'll know what this Squad is capable of , maybe introduce a couple of new players at a time , no big disruptions then find two or three different systems that the players are comfortable with .
It's still a very exciting time to be an England fan .
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Samba »

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Yes , of course , very understandable .
Fatigue had set in , mate and they were caught unawares by a lucky header - it happens and someone had to lose , better that way than for some unlucky individual to let down the nation by missing a penalty .
I like Barkley and now Wilshere is West Ham , I like him too .
Plenty of time to experiment with different players now , the pressure is off - he'll know what this Squad is capable of , maybe introduce a couple of new players at a time , no big disruptions then find two or three different systems that the players are comfortable with .
It's still a very exciting time to be an England fan .
:thup:
You're summing it up pretty well TOMoS.
I think we all also underestimate just how tiring, a tournament is, as it goes on.
Mentally tiring just as much as well as physically.
As Eggy said elsewhere, when you're mentally tired, the big thing that goes is your concentration. It can make good players look really s**t.
Again, perhaps the older, more experienced Croatians, managed to cope with that, just a little bit better.
It was great fun, while it lasted.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by The Old Mile End »

you can look at it in different ways and find good and bad. I was amazed we got this far with a few players not showing up several times (Alli, Young, Lingard, Sterling). And yet as a collective, it worked.

But the continuity that gets you further into the competition, tires the players and limits the chances for others. And when the time comes to call on the squad - it's futile really as they need time to adjust - and time is limited.

It's true that we didn't really beat anyone of note and definitely had the easier route to the SF. Contrast with battle hardened Croatia who had beaten Argentina, Nigeria & Iceland in the group, and then knocked out the hosts. They also clawed their way through the knock outs by going to extra time in all three games. Having said that, you can only beat who you have in front of you and England did superbly well overall.

However, Croatia showed true grit when it mattered. England I feel, didn't have enough players who were prepared to put their body on the line when push came to shove.

Great thing about following England though is that the team belongs to everyone. Doesn't matter if you are from London, Manchester, Wath upon Dearne or Worksop. Doesn't matter if you support a club from the Premier League or the United Counties League. The England team belongs to you and you have a right to be there.

It was great while it lasted.
Last edited by The Old Mile End on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

Patito wrote:

I agree with the sentiment TOMOS, they were tired and without doubt, they gave it their all in every game. However, watch the goal again and keep your eyes on Stones and Mandzukic. Stones really ought to be reacting much much quicker there, a massive loss of concentration, he started ahead of Mandzukic, as soon as that ball is heading back towards the goal he should be turning. Mandzukic had the time to turn run and get 2 yards on Stones before our lad had even reacted. In that situation, Mandzukic made his own luck.
Mandzukic makes his run as soon as he sees where the ball is going , Stones is facing the opposite way , I'm afraid Mandzukic had the advantage all along and I can't bring myself to blame the England defender .
Sometimes the ball lands in your favour .
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by Porkeyes »

Well done all round , smashed expectations I never thought I'd see that togetherness again with regard to the England team/support.

The England management / FA must not sit back and do nothing like West Ham do after a decent season. The skeleton of a decent side is there it just needs some midfield playmaking meat adding to it and a couple of other small tweaks.

We must not let this chance to compete regularly in tournaments slip through our fingers. Please build.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Mandzukic makes his run as soon as he sees where the ball is going , Stones is facing the opposite way , I'm afraid Mandzukic had the advantage all along and I can't bring myself to blame the England defender .
Sometimes the ball lands in your favour .
Stones and Mandzukic were both facing the same direction when the ball is headed, Stones is actually slightly behind Mandzukic too (ie. goalside). No advantage whatsoever from Mandzukic he just reacted miles quicker than Stones and made his own luck. It's plan as day see for yourself below. :)

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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by sutts07 »

Fantastic start to the game but for me the turning point was that Kane chance.
If he rolls that in, or slips it to Stirling for an open goal, it is a different game entirely.

Croatia had a huge let off there and they clearly knew it. They upped their game almost instantly and it put an element of doubt into our minds for the first time in the tournament.

From that point on we were second best in looking back, it was only going to go one way. You have to take your chances when you are on to, especially at that level more.

Walker needs to attack the ball bigger, better and harder for the first goal. That said, it was a lovely cross and finish. Young also needs to get out to shut down the cross a bit sooner.

Their winner was a combination of luck, determination and quality. Trippier was clearly struggling but he has to do more to challenge for the initial header. Have to question why Stones, along with everyone else in the box with the exception of the Mandzukic, failed to anticipate the ball being ****ed on. From that point on, it was a quality instinctive finish.

Truth be told, we came up a little bit short against a decent opposition. We had the chances in that first half an hour to really make a statement and we didn't take them.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by The Old Mile End »

I'd like to see us now pick ourselves up and play the Third/Fourth place match with intent. Obviously most of the first choice side will be rested, but 3rd place in the World Cup is still something to cheer about.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by DDHammer »

Up the Junction wrote:I read that England created six shots on target from open play in ten hours of tournament football.
Not surprising when you look at this:

vs Belgium - 2 shots on target.
vs Colombia - 2 shots on target.
vs Sweden - 2 shots on target.
vs Croatia - 2 shots on target.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by The Old Mile End »

^^^^^^^

Doesn't that add up to eight? :eh:
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by DDHammer »

The Old Mile End wrote:^^^^^^^

Doesn't that add up to eight? :eh:
That's total shots on target in each game, includes both open play and set pieces.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by The Old Mile End »

DDHammer wrote:That's total shots on target in each game, includes both open play and set pieces.
As you were.

I reckon we also had a very high number of back passes to the keeper. We continued to do this through the game (even in the last minutes) despite the fact that Croatia had sussed it and were pushing players forward to put pressure on.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by James P »

I have no issue with our major threat coming from set pieces. No country seemed to have found a way to stop it and we scored a decent number of goals.
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Re: #62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

Post by swash »

Not with a view to apportioning blame, but just from a coaching/analysing point of view, just looked at the winning goal in slow motion for the first time since last night and it really is an absolute horror show.

Walker just waves a leg at the ball (something Maguire did earlier in the game as well) Trippier doen't even get off the ground to challenge for the header, just seems intent on pushing the opponent in the back, Stones so slow to react it is unreal, I know people will say he was tired etc, but so was Mandzukic and he still reacted quickly, Pickford looks all over the place as well, the striker is going to go far post 9 times out of 10 in that situation, and yet Pickford is set to dive to the near post and ends up waving a leg at that ball as it flies past.

Such as shame top go out to such an avoidable goal.
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