England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
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- Samba
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England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
Absolutely well chuffed at us reaching the World Cup semi-final.
Far exceeded my personal expectations.
And how good have some players been?
Trippier, really outstanding.
Pickford, a really great shot-stopper & definitely now, cemented as Englands no.1
Maguire, I have called him a bit of a donkey in the past, mainly because he is definitely not very mobile, as compared to say, Stones. However, he has really impressed me in this this tournament in terms of his heading & getting forward. He deserved his place out there & hopefully his still-learning football brain might make up for his lack of real mobility.
More thoughts to follow..
What do you's lot all think?
Far exceeded my personal expectations.
And how good have some players been?
Trippier, really outstanding.
Pickford, a really great shot-stopper & definitely now, cemented as Englands no.1
Maguire, I have called him a bit of a donkey in the past, mainly because he is definitely not very mobile, as compared to say, Stones. However, he has really impressed me in this this tournament in terms of his heading & getting forward. He deserved his place out there & hopefully his still-learning football brain might make up for his lack of real mobility.
More thoughts to follow..
What do you's lot all think?
- Faithless
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
I find this a difficult one really.
At the start of the tournament a semi-final was beyond my expectations but the way the draw opened up a place in the final was a real possibility and a missed opportunity in my opinion. Considering our history though I can't be anything but chuffed with reaching the semi-final the final would've left me over-chuffed
Pro's
Pickford, Trippier, McGuire, Henderson, Kane (Group/2nd round) Lingaard to a lesser degree.
Inventive Set Pieces
Winning a penalty shootout - honestly wasn't sure i'd ever get to see that.
Some exciting football up to half time in the semi (i'm not counting the last group game).
Semi-Finalists.
Con's
Defending at times was very poor .
Sterlings' end product, Alli's overall contribution.
An apparent lack of a Plan B/Failing to beat a side that required more tactical flexibility.
Lack of chances created from open play
At the start of the tournament a semi-final was beyond my expectations but the way the draw opened up a place in the final was a real possibility and a missed opportunity in my opinion. Considering our history though I can't be anything but chuffed with reaching the semi-final the final would've left me over-chuffed
Pro's
Pickford, Trippier, McGuire, Henderson, Kane (Group/2nd round) Lingaard to a lesser degree.
Inventive Set Pieces
Winning a penalty shootout - honestly wasn't sure i'd ever get to see that.
Some exciting football up to half time in the semi (i'm not counting the last group game).
Semi-Finalists.
Con's
Defending at times was very poor .
Sterlings' end product, Alli's overall contribution.
An apparent lack of a Plan B/Failing to beat a side that required more tactical flexibility.
Lack of chances created from open play
Last edited by Faithless on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
I bet Spurs fans are livid. 11(IIRC) players on the pitch today. What price them winning anything with that many missing the start of the season?
- DasNutNock
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
Can't argue with that Faithless.
It was a wonderful summer - the combination of sizzling heat, a likeable and mostly humble England team & management, a world cup Semi appearance, and some great games of football, kicked off by that firecracker of a match between Portugal & Spain.
Clearly, there's work to be done if we're ever going to be serious contenders, but Southgate did brilliantly to galvanise a nation that had long singe given up on international football. Over-delivery on all fronts, irrespective of whether or not we maybe weren't as good as 4th place suggests.
It was a wonderful summer - the combination of sizzling heat, a likeable and mostly humble England team & management, a world cup Semi appearance, and some great games of football, kicked off by that firecracker of a match between Portugal & Spain.
Clearly, there's work to be done if we're ever going to be serious contenders, but Southgate did brilliantly to galvanise a nation that had long singe given up on international football. Over-delivery on all fronts, irrespective of whether or not we maybe weren't as good as 4th place suggests.
- sicknote
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
I’m proud of them
Not going to dissect not the time to do that I’m just happy my country performed and made so many people in England and further afield happy and proud and that’s sports power
Not going to dissect not the time to do that I’m just happy my country performed and made so many people in England and further afield happy and proud and that’s sports power
- Rio
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
I’m more inclined to side with Faithless.
I’m immensely proud we got this far. I believe in Southgate and what he’s trying to achieve. We looked defensively sound until the Croatia game, we’re trying to play football, we’re trying to integrate young talent early with a view to the future.
The first half against Tunisia was scintillating. Panama we were professional and took advyof their naivity. The openings against Columbia and Croatia were promising but the outcomes could have improved with killer instincts. Sweden was tournament football at its finest.
However we can pick huge holes in our performances and selection. That’s not to say we’re not on the right got path, just that we missed an opportunity and naturally every Englishman wants England to excel.
We reached the semis with our forward line largely misfiring. Kane will go down as the luckiest golden boot winner ever. 3 pens, 1 massively deflected goal and the recipient of some old school wrestling apart he’s been anonymous and when it came down to the crunch, lacking. He’s proved again he’s not a tournament player. Certainly not when the tournament is in the summer.
Lingard was average. Alli awful, sterling a handful but wasteful. When he plays for city he has a plethora of talent creating space, peeling off him. National side looks at him thinks wow he’s quick.
The lack of midfield creativity was all too evident. Panama apart 2 goals from open play in 7 games isn’t good enough.
Don’t get me wrong I’m proud. But even being 4 years ahead of schedule I’m also rueful we’ve missed an opportunity. There’s been positives, but for each one you can identify a negative.
In Gareth I trust, but we were damm fortunate to get this far.
I’m immensely proud we got this far. I believe in Southgate and what he’s trying to achieve. We looked defensively sound until the Croatia game, we’re trying to play football, we’re trying to integrate young talent early with a view to the future.
The first half against Tunisia was scintillating. Panama we were professional and took advyof their naivity. The openings against Columbia and Croatia were promising but the outcomes could have improved with killer instincts. Sweden was tournament football at its finest.
However we can pick huge holes in our performances and selection. That’s not to say we’re not on the right got path, just that we missed an opportunity and naturally every Englishman wants England to excel.
We reached the semis with our forward line largely misfiring. Kane will go down as the luckiest golden boot winner ever. 3 pens, 1 massively deflected goal and the recipient of some old school wrestling apart he’s been anonymous and when it came down to the crunch, lacking. He’s proved again he’s not a tournament player. Certainly not when the tournament is in the summer.
Lingard was average. Alli awful, sterling a handful but wasteful. When he plays for city he has a plethora of talent creating space, peeling off him. National side looks at him thinks wow he’s quick.
The lack of midfield creativity was all too evident. Panama apart 2 goals from open play in 7 games isn’t good enough.
Don’t get me wrong I’m proud. But even being 4 years ahead of schedule I’m also rueful we’ve missed an opportunity. There’s been positives, but for each one you can identify a negative.
In Gareth I trust, but we were damm fortunate to get this far.
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
A fantastic performance from England and they got far further than I could have imagined. The most wonderful thing was how well expectation has been managed. There are things to improve on but the nucleus of the squad is something that is equipped to build on. The likes of Pickford, Trippier, Maguire, Loftus-Cheek and even Sterling is a good foundation to build on. Kane faded a bit but again, he is young and intelligent enough to learn and it has been good to see young Ashley reinvent himself. Alli must know that he should have done better but he is young and will learn from the experience.
Overall, a solid 7/10 with room and potential for improvement.
Overall, a solid 7/10 with room and potential for improvement.
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
The team that we sent out did better than we had a right to expect and I'm in agreement with Faithless and Rio as to the overall performance of our front four. Others have rightly praised Stones, Maguire, Trippier and Pickford as having had an outstanding tournament but, I'd also add Henderson to the list as someone who really stepped up and, penalty miss aside, didn't put a foot wrong.
In reality, I think that this is about as good as it will get until we find a truly world-class midfield talent: another Gascoigne, a Payet or a Modric. Someone who can not only unlock the meanest defence but, more importantly, someone with a true football brain who makes everyone else in the team look 10% better than they really are and play accordingly. Until such times, I think the quarters and, on a good day, the semis are about par for us at major championships. Hard work, organization and a system that suits the players are all well and good but, to actually win things you need two or three guys in the team who are the best in the world at what they do.
In reality, I think that this is about as good as it will get until we find a truly world-class midfield talent: another Gascoigne, a Payet or a Modric. Someone who can not only unlock the meanest defence but, more importantly, someone with a true football brain who makes everyone else in the team look 10% better than they really are and play accordingly. Until such times, I think the quarters and, on a good day, the semis are about par for us at major championships. Hard work, organization and a system that suits the players are all well and good but, to actually win things you need two or three guys in the team who are the best in the world at what they do.
Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
Why is a defence that amassed one clean sheet in seven games getting so much praise, even Tunisa and Panama scored against us for christ sake
To me
As a finish getting to the semi is a massive achievement but on the flip side
No plan B
About 2 goals from open play
Kane fizzled out after a bright start
Midfield three of Ali, Sterling, Lingaard flattered to deceive
Subs were almost by the book every time, basically predictable
Squad lacked some experience to come on against Croatia and settle it down
Pickford played well
To me
As a finish getting to the semi is a massive achievement but on the flip side
No plan B
About 2 goals from open play
Kane fizzled out after a bright start
Midfield three of Ali, Sterling, Lingaard flattered to deceive
Subs were almost by the book every time, basically predictable
Squad lacked some experience to come on against Croatia and settle it down
Pickford played well
- sicknote
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
All you’ve done is dig on this forum
Thank f*** you weren’t able to put down 1990’s team because no doubt you would have , and that team had more expectancy than this one
Thank f*** you weren’t able to put down 1990’s team because no doubt you would have , and that team had more expectancy than this one
- S-H
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
We did far better than expected with an average team, restored national pride at a time when it was at an all time low, we have a very talented group of youngsters coming through different age groups.
There's plenty to be optimistic about.
There's plenty to be optimistic about.
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
@ Faithless and Rio
with a nod to Sicknote.
above well analysed, and with S/n on being so proud of the team in general...I think it's fair to dissect the team and their shortcomings as long as it is done without nitpicking for nitpicking's sake @ fmgod....
We have fallen so short with a plethora of talent and gone further than for a long time with less than. I think McGuire, Tripper and Pickford were standouts. Henderson - well, Henderson, not spectacular but not dynamic (which is what we lack).
Stones decent, Young and Rose (Rose in particular) could have done better. Walker was good with a few usual bonehead plays chucked in which we got away with.
Lingard and Rashford when he played did okay to less than average, although to be fair Rashford didn't get much time.
Kane was disappointing, but as I have said got little to no service at all.
Alli and Sterling well pretty awful, apart from one headed goal from Alli, they were less than anonymous.
Thought in general Southgate got more right than wrong, but felt a bit like Moyes and the Slav sometimes, left it too late to make subs.
Dyer was frustrating or decent when he played.
RLC isn't at this level, not yet at least.
Delph did enough to warrant more time.
Our play from "open play" wasn't the best at times, and at times was excellent.
Outs: Cahill, Jones, Vardy, Wellbeck, we could use someone from the bench that might make an impact, it seems like we didn't have anyone........
Ox to come back, if he can maintain his Bin Dippers form. Ross Barkley needs to go somewhere he can actually get on the field, Wilshere needs to stay fully healthy and stick in some goals for us. Maybe Drinkwater can force his way into the reckoning. Seeing the u-21/23's etc. no one there makes me think the next coming is just around the corner. They all lack that dynamic break down locked defences or someone with a bit of guile........watching them is a bit like watching England Lite.
Now let me says thanks for making me once more excited to follow the team and for having that "can't wait for the next game" expectancy.
with a nod to Sicknote.
above well analysed, and with S/n on being so proud of the team in general...I think it's fair to dissect the team and their shortcomings as long as it is done without nitpicking for nitpicking's sake @ fmgod....
We have fallen so short with a plethora of talent and gone further than for a long time with less than. I think McGuire, Tripper and Pickford were standouts. Henderson - well, Henderson, not spectacular but not dynamic (which is what we lack).
Stones decent, Young and Rose (Rose in particular) could have done better. Walker was good with a few usual bonehead plays chucked in which we got away with.
Lingard and Rashford when he played did okay to less than average, although to be fair Rashford didn't get much time.
Kane was disappointing, but as I have said got little to no service at all.
Alli and Sterling well pretty awful, apart from one headed goal from Alli, they were less than anonymous.
Thought in general Southgate got more right than wrong, but felt a bit like Moyes and the Slav sometimes, left it too late to make subs.
Dyer was frustrating or decent when he played.
RLC isn't at this level, not yet at least.
Delph did enough to warrant more time.
Our play from "open play" wasn't the best at times, and at times was excellent.
Outs: Cahill, Jones, Vardy, Wellbeck, we could use someone from the bench that might make an impact, it seems like we didn't have anyone........
Ox to come back, if he can maintain his Bin Dippers form. Ross Barkley needs to go somewhere he can actually get on the field, Wilshere needs to stay fully healthy and stick in some goals for us. Maybe Drinkwater can force his way into the reckoning. Seeing the u-21/23's etc. no one there makes me think the next coming is just around the corner. They all lack that dynamic break down locked defences or someone with a bit of guile........watching them is a bit like watching England Lite.
Now let me says thanks for making me once more excited to follow the team and for having that "can't wait for the next game" expectancy.
- Faithless
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
They're not are they? Pickford has been sighted as having a good tournament, as has McGuire, Trippier and Stones has been given a so-so. They all did have good tournaments, they might all be guilty of some very poor defending at times but a lot of that came from our misfiring strikeforce offering not a great deal of pressing or holds up play from the front from the 2nd half against Columbia and 2nd half against Croatia building pressure on them. Defence starts at the front and ours didn't on a number of occasions.fmgod wrote:Why is a defence that amassed one clean sheet in seven games getting so much praise, even Tunisa and Panama scored against us for christ sake
Thing is FM a lot of what you say I agree with but the way you say it almost seems like you want to get a reaction or maybe you just don't see how the way you say/type something can rile others?
Edited to add: Just seen your reply on the Match thread about Nick the other day. I was gonna say something similar to him as I've just said above but that conversation had been over for hours by the time i saw it.
Your flip side isn't anything i'd disagree with but you really didn't see any other positives in the performances team wise or player wise you could've mentioned?
Last edited by Faithless on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- e17
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
In retrospect I thought we wouldn’t qualify from our group, and we finished in the final 4
Made a fantastic summer and a very good World Cup even better.
That sunny afternoon drinking beers and the first half against Panama? That penalty drama? Absolutely amazing Saturday’s with what felt like “an old friend”
Oh & Sicknote
Made a fantastic summer and a very good World Cup even better.
That sunny afternoon drinking beers and the first half against Panama? That penalty drama? Absolutely amazing Saturday’s with what felt like “an old friend”
Oh & Sicknote
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
Would you have rather we got to the semi finals grinding out 1-0 wins, Allardyce style?fmgod wrote:Why is a defence that amassed one clean sheet in seven games getting so much praise, even Tunisa and Panama scored against us for christ sake
How many caps or games before this had Pickford, Stones, Trippier, Maguire, Young and Walker featured in together, and how many games during it were one or the other of those absolutely key?
Did you expect this team to really do better than 4th? Did anyone?
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
I'm very pleased that this time we didn't have a 'big name' like a past-it Rooney or Beckham, stinking the place out.
Having no real big star seemed to help the players all gel better.
Henderson far exceeded my impression of him beforehand. Not sure why he isn't captain but Kane was an ok one.
There seemed to be something up with Dier from the start. He just didn't seem happy or comfortable.
He scored the winning pen against Colombia but it was so nearly saved.
Before the start, I said in the England World Cup squad thread, that I felt we had a bloody weak midfield & that I wasn't sure about all of the squad'. Perhaps that turned out to be the case. We had a very good starting 11 but not too many good others in the squad.
For a very good PL goalscorer, Vardy seriously underwhelmed me.
I like Walker but he had some terrible brain-freeze moments.
Having no real big star seemed to help the players all gel better.
Henderson far exceeded my impression of him beforehand. Not sure why he isn't captain but Kane was an ok one.
There seemed to be something up with Dier from the start. He just didn't seem happy or comfortable.
He scored the winning pen against Colombia but it was so nearly saved.
Before the start, I said in the England World Cup squad thread, that I felt we had a bloody weak midfield & that I wasn't sure about all of the squad'. Perhaps that turned out to be the case. We had a very good starting 11 but not too many good others in the squad.
For a very good PL goalscorer, Vardy seriously underwhelmed me.
I like Walker but he had some terrible brain-freeze moments.
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
I don't think that I can add much to what has already been said about some of the individual performances.
Overall, I think that they performed far better than anyone could ever have dreamed a month ago; the disappointment that some people are expressing is misplaced imo, the outcome was far greater than the expectation, and that is not a cause for disappointment.
I think that we should be satisfied that Project Southgate has got off to a good start. He,like his team, are not the finished product yet, but If Gareth is given the support to continue then the team should only get better.
Of course, if England have not developed, in those areas that have been exposed as lacking, by Euro 2020 then maybe we can make a more accurate assessment of his managerial quality. Until then, lets just be happy that this summer he has re-ignited the nation's love for it's national team. Which is more than many of his predecessors ever did.
Overall, I think that they performed far better than anyone could ever have dreamed a month ago; the disappointment that some people are expressing is misplaced imo, the outcome was far greater than the expectation, and that is not a cause for disappointment.
I think that we should be satisfied that Project Southgate has got off to a good start. He,like his team, are not the finished product yet, but If Gareth is given the support to continue then the team should only get better.
Of course, if England have not developed, in those areas that have been exposed as lacking, by Euro 2020 then maybe we can make a more accurate assessment of his managerial quality. Until then, lets just be happy that this summer he has re-ignited the nation's love for it's national team. Which is more than many of his predecessors ever did.
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
Andrew wrote:I don't think that I can add much...
- carnage
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
He has been doing that regarding English players for as long as I have been on this forum.sicknote wrote:All you’ve done is dig on this forum
Thank **** you weren’t able to put down 1990’s team because no doubt you would have , and that team had more expectancy than this one
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Re: England's 2018 World Cup performance; in retrospect
Spot on....is so nice coming out of a tournament thinking it’s the start of something rather that lots of hand wringing, calling for resignations or a bloody review of some kind!Andrew wrote:I don't think that I can add much to what has already been said about some of the individual performances.
Overall, I think that they performed far better than anyone could ever have dreamed a month ago; the disappointment that some people are expressing is misplaced imo, the outcome was far greater than the expectation, and that is not a cause for disappointment.
I think that we should be satisfied that Project Southgate has got off to a good start. He,like his team, are not the finished product yet, but If Gareth is given the support to continue then the team should only get better.
Of course, if England have not developed, in those areas that have been exposed as lacking, by Euro 2020 then maybe we can make a more accurate assessment of his managerial quality. Until then, lets just be happy that this summer he has re-ignited the nation's love for it's national team. Which is more than many of his predecessors ever did.
Definitely glass half full for me.....